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Author Topic: Ogre Particle.  (Read 8313 times)

LowRG

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Ogre Particle.
« on: June 26, 2008, 07:27:42 PM »
Replacing the AMB Particle.  Gray and dark gray.

Hook.

 

mainzer

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2008, 08:25:35 PM »
Particle would be cool but I would me more interested in a Urethane OGRE!
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charlest

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #32 on: July 03, 2008, 10:56:24 PM »
quote:
Well sounds like the particle is a sure thing, but has anyone heard of any other new stuff from visionary in the next few months?  I would LOVE to see a urethane, and also a pearl with a low particle load, but that's just me.  I really don't see enough oil to use heavy old balls.


Jason has already said a month or two ago that he will not be producing any particle pearls. In his testing, he has found little significant (my paraphrasing, not his) difference in ball reaction between particle pearls and polished solid resin balls. I tried to persuade him but failed. I'd love to see the Ogre Particle Pearl, but, based on his words, I doubt we ever will.
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Edited on 7/4/2008 5:33 AM
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

Lillen

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2008, 01:35:31 AM »
quote:
I'd love to see the Ogre Particle Pearl


Second that...  
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BigWillyStyle

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #34 on: July 04, 2008, 02:18:32 AM »
I'm sure some of his decision might have to do with the fact that the Purple Ice for many was not as good a Visionary piece as others. Even though it was stated that it was more "condition-specific" people still just want THS equipment. I love my Purple Ice, and think it might be THE 1st ball out of the bag the rest of my PBAX league...

Big Willy Style

PS...I definately third the motion for a PP cover, though I'd rather it be on the Gryphon core (actually, I'd rather it be on the Immortal core, but since that is impossible due to new USBC rules...would be happy with Gryphon core).


quote:
Jason has already said a few month or two ago that he will not be producing any particle pearls. In his testing, he has found little significant (my paraphrasing, not his) difference in ball reaction between particle pearls and polished solid resin balls. I tried to persuade him but failed. I'd love to see the Ogre Particle Pearl, but, based on his words, I doubt we ever will.
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charlest

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #35 on: July 04, 2008, 05:40:36 AM »
quote:
I'm sure some of his decision might have to do with the fact that the Purple Ice for many was not as good a Visionary piece as others. Even though it was stated that it was more "condition-specific" people still just want THS equipment. I love my Purple Ice, and think it might be THE 1st ball out of the bag the rest of my PBAX league...

Big Willy Style


Big Willy,

I'm far too lazy to go look up what Jason said in that thread, but while the Purple Ice was mentioned, it was not the factor according to Jason. Besides, If I recall correctly (again), the Purple Ice was pearlized and it was particle but it was not resin it was urethane: a Particle pearl urethane. Leave it Jason to find a unique ball reaction!

ANyway, I do specifically recall his saying he saw no difference between a particle pearl and a polished solid resin. Oddly enough, some things do stick in my memory.

That said, I'm still on the "Particle Pearl" bandwagon myself. I would love to see an Ogre Particle Pearl. A Kelly green and BMW silver one! Now THAT would stand out on a ball return.
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"None are so blind as those who will not see."

BigWillyStyle

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #36 on: July 04, 2008, 09:44:45 AM »
quote:
Big Willy,

I'm far too lazy to go look up what Jason said in that thread, but while the Purple Ice was mentioned, it was not the factor according to Jason. Besides, If I recall correctly (again), the Purple Ice was pearlized and it was particle but it was not resin it was urethane: a Particle pearl urethane. Leave it Jason to find a unique ball reaction!

ANyway, I do specifically recall his saying he saw no difference between a particle pearl and a polished solid resin. Oddly enough, some things do stick in my memory.

That said, I'm still on the "Particle Pearl" bandwagon myself. I would love to see an Ogre Particle Pearl. A Kelly green and BMW silver one! Now THAT would stand out on a ball return.
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How about we add some orange in it...you know...for that extra luck of the irish carry!  

Big Willy Style

PS...that is very interesting to know, as I had never heard that the PIE was a PP Urethane.
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darkman

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2008, 03:47:37 PM »
On correction guys I am pretty sure I remember a thread where jason said the purple executioner was actually both urethane and reactive based, it was some kind of combination/mix I believe!

scotts33

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2008, 06:31:27 PM »
quote:
I'm far too lazy to go look up what Jason said in that thread, but while the Purple Ice was mentioned, it was not the factor according to Jason. Besides, If I recall correctly (again), the Purple Ice was pearlized and it was particle but it was not resin it was urethane: a Particle pearl urethane. Leave it Jason to find a unique ball reaction!

Anyway, I do specifically recall his saying he saw no difference between a particle pearl and a polished solid resin. Oddly enough, some things do stick in my memory.





Here ya go.   http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=171414&ForumID=15&CategoryID=2
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gsback

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #39 on: July 07, 2008, 04:07:37 PM »
quote:
Here ya go. http://www.ballreviews.com/Forum/Replies.asp?TopicID=171414&ForumID=15&CategoryID=2


I played with the settings, but can't get anything on that topic.  That kinda sucks!!

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darkman

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #40 on: July 07, 2008, 04:26:10 PM »
Ya Me neither

DynoMo

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #41 on: July 07, 2008, 04:32:58 PM »

jbuzz31

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #42 on: July 07, 2008, 05:00:30 PM »
my question is ,which coverstock will be the base? eradicator like the first two ogres? destroyer like the pearl? or react-a-tak?

and just how much particle load will be in it
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scotts33

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #43 on: July 07, 2008, 05:00:51 PM »
Here's the gist of the post that charlest asked Jason....for those that can't see it.

charlest question posted 8/13/2007  

Jason,

1. Let me tell you what I have seen, and in my experience, regarding solid resin vs particle pearls:

To my eye, particle pearls can cover the same oil amount/pattern that solid resin balls do, but they seem to cvoer more boards while doing it
PLUS they seem to handle carrydown better while getting the same length with more backend AND more overall hook. I have seen this with both old particle pearls like the Brunswick Riot Zone, middle older particle pearls like the Hammer Razor Blade and newer ones like the Storm Pyro and the Shift.

The factors of more overall hook and more backend compared to solid resins seems, to my eye, to allow them to handle carrydown better than rougher and earlier hooking solid resin which also handle carrydown, but reduce carry power to an unspecified degree.

2. I would like to see the Ogre coverstock placed in a similar core to the current Ogre BUT with a greater RG differential (like the old Warlock DC cores: medium-high Rg and higher RG differential). I think this will allow them to handle carrydown better than they do now. I see this in my semi-polished "pumpkin" Ogre (polished before the Black/Purple one came out). I think a higher RG diff core drilled correctly would allow it (and the "blurple" Ogre) to handle carrydown better than simply sanding the surface rougher. Most times, sanding the surface won't allow the same ball to be used on the lanes with carrydown.

Thank you.
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Jason's response 8/14/07

Hi Charlest,

Thank you for the input. I know that in theory, what you are describing is exactly what is supposed to happen, but thus far I haven't really seen that in our testing. I guess it is possible that we simply haven't tested the right balls yet, but I usually try to find what I hear is the most popular ball at the time, and try to see what it is doing that makes it stand out.

Unfortunately, or fortunately (depending on how you look at it), I find that what makes the ball so popular is often times not the reaction, but the hype behind it.

Have you tried the FM Signature Gryphon? While the cover isn't the same as the Ogre, they have similar characteristics, and if anything the React-A-Tack cover is a little stronger overall than the Eradicator. This would give you the med. RG and higher diff that you are describing in your post.

Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Product

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scotts33

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #44 on: July 07, 2008, 05:02:25 PM »
quote:
my question is ,which coverstock will be the base? eradicator like the first two ogres? destroyer like the pearl? or react-a-tak?

and just how much particle load will be in it


Don't think I am letting the cat out of the bag here.  Jason says the particle load will be much like the old Granite Gargoyle including the beard which personally I like.
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Scott

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Re: Ogre Particle.
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2008, 10:35:41 PM »
OK ladies and gents,

Since the cat is out of the bag, and buddies pro shop must have taken a picture of the ball at Bowl Expo (kudo's to you for being smart enough to think of taking the pic and being the first to put it up on your site), I will go ahead and fill everyone in on the information that I can release right now.

The Ogre Particle does use the coverstock on the Granite.  There are very small changes, but the changes are mostly the pigments used to make the colors.  This ball is what we are calling pewter and black.  It is a grey/black combo.  

It still uses the same core as the other Ogres.

This ball is designed to blend out wet/dry lane conditions, and help combat the carrydown issue that many are facing.  

Absolute, we do make multicolor particle balls, but most of the particles are dark in color, so unless we use a very light load, it is virtually impossible to make good looking colors.  Particle pearls are light loaded, and we can make decent colors that way if we wanted.

Here is a link to a picture

http://img337.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ogrecoreandballcopyal4.jpg

Jason Wonders
Visionary Bowling Products



Edited on 7/7/2008 10:42 PM