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Author Topic: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game  (Read 12339 times)

Mighty Fish

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60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« on: August 18, 2013, 07:32:43 PM »
A bowler who has been an ABC/USBC member for more than six decades and has bowled in 55 national tournaments -- Paul Gustke of Sarasota, Fla. -- has some interesting comments about USBC and the direction of the modern-day game.

http://www.examiner.com/article/with-55-usbc-tournaments-under-his-belt-gustke-has-concerns-about-state-of-game
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Long Gone Daddy

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2013, 07:40:13 PM »
Amazing.  Yet another tool more worried about trinkets than anything else.  The USBC moved, get over it people.  Now the USBC has to worry about people's travel schedules and expenses?  Seriously?   
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mainzer

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2013, 11:46:02 PM »
Quote from: Long Gone Daddy on August 18, 2013, 07:40:13 PM
Amazing.  Yet another tool more worried about trinkets than anything else.  The USBC moved, get over it people.  Now the USBC has to worry about people's travel schedules and expenses?  Seriously?   

+1 million
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kidlost2000

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2013, 01:40:07 AM »
Get out of bowling what you want because no one else cares. The rest of the world considers it a joke. If you want awards get a TNBA membership. If you want tough coniditions bowl in tournaments and events that cater to it.

If you want the equipment to be less advanced buy the less advanced equipment and use it.

There are a number of ways to get what you want out of bowling with out needing others to do so. The USBC is a joke in many ways. Once you understand thatm and that is a business like any other then you can focus less on it and more on what you enjoy.
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Dogtown

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2013, 08:18:38 AM »
Mr. Gustke has some valid points.  Something that stood out to me was if USBC is doing away with awards, other than 300, 800, 900 rings, what reason would a league have to sanction?

I get that a lot of the awards are cheesy.  I don't think many people care about patches, refrigerator magnets, key changes or plaques.  But is doing nothing the answer?

I think bowling needs to look at golf and the USGA as an example.  Mr. Gustke is concerned about the USBC offering alcohol at the Open and I understand that.  But after going to the Open, it was nice to have a beer to calm my nerves.  I know bowling has a stigma about it being an excuse to drink.  But honestly, every golf tournament I've played in there has been a beer cart going around.  And nobody mentions that when talking about golf.

It will be interesting to see how things change over the next few years.  I feel we need to invest more in the youth.  I also feel bowling proprietors need to be more involved.  If they are not promoting leagues and youth bowling, then bowling with continue to decline.  Open bowlers or casual bowlers come and go, league bowlers are there every week.
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Gizmo823

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2013, 08:42:26 AM »
I don't know that this guy is worried about the trinkets for himself, he's worried about the rest of the simpletons that are that will factor it into deciding whether to be sanctioned or not.  We've just started talking about awards on our board and there's been a community uproar already about USBC no longer handing out magnets and keychains, even though most people throw them in the trash or leave them on the tables.  You just can't be a business in today's world without kissing everyone's ass, and whether it's right or fair or not, some people on the east coast are getting pissy about constantly having to travel across the entire country every single year.  I don't think he cares particularly, he's just had enough experience to know who's doing the griping and what it's going to be about
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Snakster

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2013, 09:23:02 AM »
Quote from: Dogtown on August 19, 2013, 08:18:38 AM

It will be interesting to see how things change over the next few years.  I feel we need to invest more in the youth.  I also feel bowling proprietors need to be more involved.  If they are not promoting leagues and youth bowling, then bowling with continue to decline.  Open bowlers or casual bowlers come and go, league bowlers are there every week.

I couldn't agree more. I've only really gotten into it since January of this year when my son suddenly got interested and involved in bowling. The lack of drive to market towards youth was immediately evident and nonsensical to me. Birthday parties are not youth bowling. The 'coaching' that is provided at his youth league was, frankly, a joke. You may or may not receive any attention in any given week. And the attention they did receive seemed to me to be ham-handed. I see kids with absolutely atrocious form (older ones) with zero attempts at trying to correct.

I don't know who is dropping the ball, whether it is USBC or the proprietors. Probably equal amounts if blame to go around. But it seems that it requires just a little too much actual work for their taste and that the barest of minimums is okay by them.

Do I care about the elimination of awards? No not really. Do the kids? Maybe the younger ones. The older ones not so much. But if you're going to make those sweeping changes, you better come to the table with more specifics about your plan and vision than some vague statement about changing focus to promoting and protecting the sport. How? With what? By doing what? Hopefully it's something that has broad scope and not focused on the top 5 %.

But you know what? The leadership looks real sharp all dressed up sitting in the front row at televised events like the Masters; patting themselves on the back about how awesome they are.

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Long Gone Daddy

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2013, 09:54:59 AM »
Quote from: Dogtown on August 19, 2013, 08:18:38 AM
Mr. Gustke has some valid points.  Something that stood out to me was if USBC is doing away with awards, other than 300, 800, 900 rings, what reason would a league have to sanction?

I get that a lot of the awards are cheesy.  I don't think many people care about patches, refrigerator magnets, key changes or plaques.  But is doing nothing the answer?

I think bowling needs to look at golf and the USGA as an example.  Mr. Gustke is concerned about the USBC offering alcohol at the Open and I understand that.  But after going to the Open, it was nice to have a beer to calm my nerves.  I know bowling has a stigma about it being an excuse to drink.  But honestly, every golf tournament I've played in there has been a beer cart going around.  And nobody mentions that when talking about golf.

It will be interesting to see how things change over the next few years.  I feel we need to invest more in the youth.  I also feel bowling proprietors need to be more involved.  If they are not promoting leagues and youth bowling, then bowling with continue to decline.  Open bowlers or casual bowlers come and go, league bowlers are there every week.

Evidently you are not aware that the USBC bonds all leagues prize money.  You bring up the USGA so evidently you seem to like the rules and regulations they come up with and the equipment specifiations they develop.  Why wouldn't you like the same things from the USBC?
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Jorge300

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2013, 11:13:19 AM »
I thought I smelled something. It had to be that dead fish wrapped in a newspaper coming back to the boards. How long did it take you to find someone who agrees with your anti-USBC stance? I find it funny that this great bowler, who should be commended for his years of service to this sport, is really just worried about awards scores. What about the facts that the USBC bonds all sanctioned leagues, protecting the moneies of those bowlers? What about the fact that the USBC consolidates and mandates rules for the sport of bowling (where would differentials be today without the USBC limiting them for example)?
 
As far as the USBC Open, has Mr. Gustke talked with his local Convention Center Board about putting together a proposal for the USBC Open? Have you Mr. Herald? Has anyone on the East Coast who continually bitches about traveling done so? I would bet an awful lot of money the answer is no. So no one is doing anything other than running their mouths about the tournament being in Reno so much. Just like all people are doing is running their mouths about the USBC, starting with Mr. Herald. Is the USBC doing a great job, no, there is a lot of room for improvement. But it also isn't the anti-christ that Mr. Herald and his lackeys make it out to be.
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Jorge300

jruffolo

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2013, 02:31:52 PM »
I think USBC plays an important and necessary role as the governing body for bowling. I like the idea that most awards should be handled at the local association level. I like to see strong efforts to support and develop youth bowling. I think the annual membership dues are reasonable. I greatly enjoy access to bowling coverage by Bowl.TV. I think most bowling tournaments should be sanctioned events. I think high school, college, national & international tournaments, and professional bowling is a sport.

I greatly enjoy competitive league bowling and for me it is recreational and challenging. I suppose I would continue to enjoy league play without USBC sanctioning, but I would like to see bowling flourish as a sport nationally and internationally. I hope USBC will be successful in balancing its role as a governing body and promotional organization for bowling.
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Long Gone Daddy

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2013, 02:41:52 PM »
Quote from: Jorge300 on August 19, 2013, 11:13:19 AM
I thought I smelled something. It had to be that dead fish wrapped in a newspaper coming back to the boards. How long did it take you to find someone who agrees with your anti-USBC stance? I find it funny that this great bowler, who should be commended for his years of service to this sport, is really just worried about awards scores. What about the facts that the USBC bonds all sanctioned leagues, protecting the moneies of those bowlers? What about the fact that the USBC consolidates and mandates rules for the sport of bowling (where would differentials be today without the USBC limiting them for example)?
 
As far as the USBC Open, has Mr. Gustke talked with his local Convention Center Board about putting together a proposal for the USBC Open? Have you Mr. Herald? Has anyone on the East Coast who continually bitches about traveling done so? I would bet an awful lot of money the answer is no. So no one is doing anything other than running their mouths about the tournament being in Reno so much. Just like all people are doing is running their mouths about the USBC, starting with Mr. Herald. Is the USBC doing a great job, no, there is a lot of room for improvement. But it also isn't the anti-christ that Mr. Herald and his lackeys make it out to be.

Didn't you know, Jorge?  The Fishwrap says he attends all national conventions and at least a dozen of his proposals were adopted to "laws".  I think the reason Fishwrap has an axe to grind is the USBC doens't pay attention to him anymore. 
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Mighty Fish

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2013, 08:49:10 PM »
Dear Long Gone Daddy, Jorge300 (and others):

Forget me for a minute, and tell me what you think about the following response I received (regarding the column) FROM MIKE ZINK, THE PRESIDENT OF MY AREA'S LOCAL USBC ASSOCIATION ...

[begin direct quotes from Mr. Zink]

You're absolutely right, most of the non-sanctioned leagues are older retired people that know that the chances of getting their money's worth are slim, and after the 2104-2015 season, that may go for the rest of us, and now USBC wants the local associations to do the awards for them while they're still collecting the $10.00. It's all a money thing with them now, even though they are non-profit, as mentioned in the article (very good by the way), they dug themselves into a hole and want us to get them out of it.

The lifetime award would work if they came up with something REALLY nice that you could add small plates to it afterwards for 11 in a row/300/800. What's worse is that they have eliminated the junior awards completely and after this year, the small adult awards are eliminated. So, you really have to ask yourself, why bother being in USBC? I'm very disappointed in them.

[end Mr. Zink's quotes]

... and again, Mr. Zink is PRESIDENT of the Sarasota-Manatee County USBC Bowling Association.
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Long Gone Daddy

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #12 on: August 20, 2013, 07:12:46 AM »
Who cares what some guy in some local says to you?  Is that all you do, look for  validation of your opinion?  The guy has probably had confrontation avoidance training sometime in his professional life and recognized the gadflly nature of your existence and just wanted you to MOVE ON.
 There you have it, Fishwrap.  MOVE ON.  You don't like the USBC, MOVE ON.  You want to take bowling backwards to the 50's and not forward to the future, MOVE ON.  Bowlers who don't want to pay to have their league funds bonded, MOVE ON.  Bowlers who think its right to abide by rules and regulations developed by an organization but don't want to pay dues to said organization, MOVE ON.  Bowlers more concerned with how many key fobs, decks of cards, and pens they can get for bowling some score or need a patch to remind them they made a 7-10 split, MOVE ON.  It just can't be any simpler.  MOVE ON.
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Gizmo823

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2013, 08:01:16 AM »
Quote from: Long Gone Daddy on August 20, 2013, 07:12:46 AM
Who cares what some guy in some local says to you?  Is that all you do, look for  validation of your opinion?  The guy has probably had confrontation avoidance training sometime in his professional life and recognized the gadflly nature of your existence and just wanted you to MOVE ON.
 There you have it, Fishwrap.  MOVE ON.  You don't like the USBC, MOVE ON.  You want to take bowling backwards to the 50's and not forward to the future, MOVE ON.  Bowlers who don't want to pay to have their league funds bonded, MOVE ON.  Bowlers who think its right to abide by rules and regulations developed by an organization but don't want to pay dues to said organization, MOVE ON.  Bowlers more concerned with how many key fobs, decks of cards, and pens they can get for bowling some score or need a patch to remind them they made a 7-10 split, MOVE ON.  It just can't be any simpler.  MOVE ON.

Dammit man, there you go making sense again.  Don't much care for the way you say a lot of things, but you're dead on here.  The USBC completely eliminating awards altogether doesn't even make me blink.  They haven't raised dues in 6 years, so not paying for awards anymore to basically get a "raise" is perfectly fine with me too.  I'm still not really happy with how USBC chooses to spend their money, but it's 10 freaking dollars to basically bond our money and give us a sanctioned average, and I'm ok with that.  I could care less for awards, and if some cheap magnets or rings that people complain non-stop about now are what is going to drive people away, that's a really ridiculous reason.  Do you know that the USBC budgets 50 CENTS a member for these awards?  So people are crying about cheap awards and the USBC getting an extra 50 cents. 
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Jorge300

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Re: 60-year USBC member speaks out on direction of modern-day game
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2013, 03:58:22 PM »
Sounds to me like it's a local association guy who liked that they didn't have to do anything but sit on their collective butts in the past and is now pissed that they may actually have to do some work if people want awards. They didn't care when all it meant was sending in paperwork to the USBC, but now that he is going to be responsible for the hundreds/thousands of awards that may come any year he is upset. If anyone quits because of losing these cheap awards, then they don't understand anything about the USBC. And these people will be the first ones crying if an unscrupulous person walks away with their money after they quit the USBC.
 
So any response to my question about how many Convention Center boards you personally have spoken with, or that Mr. Gustke has spoken with? Or were just sitting there rotting in your own juices like usual?
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 04:15:56 PM by Jorge300 »
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Jorge300
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