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Author Topic: A question for and about Jeff Carter  (Read 16820 times)

Magic Carpet

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A question for and about Jeff Carter
« on: June 25, 2006, 04:39:59 AM »
A question for and about Jeff Carter

I have pretty much stayed away from the “Mushtare” thing because I have no way of knowing if he really did what he said he did or not. I don’t find it impossible that he threw all of those 900s and I am more amazed that more people have not thrown them considering how easy lane conditions can be made today.

My question ABOUT Jeff Carter: Is Jeff Carter’s record league average a bigger feat (or at least as big) than throwing 2 or 3 900 sets?

Jeff Carter averaged 261.74 for a FULL season in league. That boys and girls is a 785 set if he just shoots his average. Until Jeff did that and Scroggs averaged what ever it was he averaged for a season I would have said THAT was impossible.  Honestly if Mr. Carter had called me up before the start of that season and said “Ron I am willing to bet big bucks that I can average 260 for a full league season.” I would have bet my house and I would be homeless now.  I am sure that Jeff will be the first to tell you he was not on a Sport pattern that season but he played on what they gave him to play on.

My question FOR Jeff Carter: Jeff how close did you come that season to throwing a 900 series and do you feel you were very far off from doing so? Do you feel that averaging 261 for a season is an equal feat to throwing a few 900s?

Good luck this year Jeff!
BTW it would be great if you could make it to the gathering July 21-23
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stopncrank

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2006, 05:56:28 PM »
your last reply to rev-o's post just made you a liar, so you learn to read you little turd. you just said maybe rob is better than them. maybe you need to learn to read.
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hawkeye4life

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2006, 05:59:30 PM »
man the ignore list is getting longer and longer bye bye jamie
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LuckyLefty

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2006, 07:48:40 PM »
For those who don't know...Magic Carpet...Ron is a wonderful well respected coach and bowling house proprietor.

Ron...I'd like to thank you for your statement that You are surprised more people haven't shot 900s or multiple 900s in the past due to the possibilities of lane conditions...improved bowlers etc.

This is what I have been saying all along!

I bowled with a bowler who several years ago came into league late...warmed up for the first 5 frames to the tune of 65 and then went sheet, sheet sheet and then 5 more after league ended!

He only bowled once a week and never practiced.  Then next year in league he started 289 300 one set.
He DID NOT throw the ball as well as Mushtare...a little softer and he used a 15.  Much like Mushtare he had a belief in himself.
As he said to me once..."If I bowled more I would have 3 or 4 900s by now".

He was also not the best on our team...that honor probably would go to Jimmy Keeth.  On the other hand as much as I loved Jimmy's Game(one of the most powerful bowlers ever)...I never pictured Jimmy thowing 900...He didn't expect he would...and frankly he didn't have the magnificent carry of the other fellow on our team...go figure?  700 rpms!

The number one key difference between the hard edge teammate I had was the hardedge non pro...believed ever time he walked in...that tonight might be his first official 900...and tomorrow might be the next!

Another difference...if interviewed by Jim the Ironman the interview would go like this....
"a bunch of people are upset about me throwing 900s in prebowl...well that's tough!  I did it ...they're ticked...and I'm going to throw more and they can all take a flyin flip!....Maybe tonight I'll throw one in regular league...Interview over"

And by the way I conjecture he might add..."I hate that sport shot bowling...who wants to watch a bunch of people throw spares...when they can see strikes...,I have no interest in!"

He was fun to bowl with.

REGards,

Luckylefty

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Jeff Carter

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2006, 09:57:36 PM »
I will reply to this tommorrow. Long day of match play, 5 hour drive home, then WWE Vengeance tonight. I'm tired !!!
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Mike Austin

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2006, 11:58:23 PM »
Many of you guys know me or have talked to me.

I know Jeffrey a little bit.

Jeff is an awesome bowler from a number of different standpoints.

It has been documented by Storm that Jeff has a very special Rev rate to ball speed ratio.  His carry is absolutely superb.  I know this because I have seen some videos of Jeff when working with my coach, Carol Norman.  (She tries to tell me that I have many similarities to Jeff and Robert Smith in different areas.  Okay Carol, put the wine down!!)

Jeff has a very loose swing, he can repeat shots, using different hand positions like a machine.

What Jeff did during his season long feat is much more spectacular than a 900 series.  He did that over many weeks, what are the odds, he never got sick, didn't strain his back shoveling snow, whatever.  I was told he did this in a league that was so big they bowled across two shifts, bowling half the year early and half the year late, with no reoil between shifts.

C'mon, that is just sick.  He never had any giant 800's, yes it was house china, but the sheer odds of this is just astounding!!

Now that I am done, I will mention Mushtare, what he did was cheat.  THERE IS NO WAY THAT HE SHOT ONE 900 MUCH LESS 2,3,4,5 OR WHATEVER.  If the house is that easy, you are telling me that he is the best bowler there, military base or not??  He didn't do it period.  USBC has no balls.  They approved his scores to avoid being sued.  Yet, they had the nerve to deny Glen Allison's 900, he is a Hall of Famer, an acknowledged Champion in the sport All-Time, and he did it with a freakin Yellow Dot!!!  I don't care how walled up you make them, nobody WILL EVER shoot 900 with plastic, ever!!!! Glen Allison was robbed big time.  Robby Mushtare is a cheater, lyer, whatever, a disgrace to bowling, and he is getting good pub, and guys like Jeff and Glen, don't get a mention, terrible.

wow.....
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Joe Jr

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #21 on: June 26, 2006, 12:49:59 AM »
Mike, what makes Jeff's release so special? He doesn't list his specs in his profile.

You can answer this too Mr. Carter.
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ambi1

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #22 on: June 26, 2006, 02:51:57 AM »
For me, there only very few instances where I use th term "awesome".  And I would use this to describe the season average or Mr. Carter.  I am more impressed by the constant high performance than the sudden flash in the pan talent.  One of the reasons also why, for me, Earl was such an awesome player.

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Rev_O

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #23 on: June 26, 2006, 03:45:37 AM »
Dude, I've bowled with the best, seen the best, and Robert isn't close to them. If he was a real MAN, he would come clean. I can't even imagine the season Jeff Carter had when he averaged 261. THAT is AMAZING. Having averaged 249 last season, and seeing that his year was still 12 PINS PER GAME better than mine, that leaves me just speechless. All I have to say is that Jeff is the real MAN, he proved that this past season bowling PTQ's and winning the regional exemption for his region. I had the GREAT pleasure of crossing with Jeff Carter at Riviera Lanes in Akron earlier this year. I stunk up the place, he was just killing them. Best of wished to you this season Jeff. I really hope to see you exempt for a long time, and to see you win titles!!!


quote:
quote:
quote:
I'll bet any amount of money that you can take Jeff Carter, WRWjr, Pete Weber, and Tommy Jones to our house and let them bowl 10 sets and none of them will shoot 900.  Why?  Maybe they aren't as good as Rob


The only reason they wouldn't shoot 900 is because they wouldn't CHEAT!!!
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Prove it then.  Until then, keep your pie hole shut.

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JoeBowler

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #24 on: June 26, 2006, 07:01:58 AM »
Jeff Carter please post your answer on a new thread so I dont have to go thru all the drivel that has been posted on this one.

Magic ask a simple question of one person and weget a rehash of 25 prevous threds on Mustard.

LuckyLefty

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #25 on: June 26, 2006, 07:18:44 AM »
JOe it's not hard...go to the end of the posts and look for Jeff Carter...skip the rest.

REgards,

Luckylefty

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Laybzz74

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #26 on: June 26, 2006, 07:24:14 AM »
My 2 cents here ...

Jeff's accomplishment speaks for itself ... and after all of the BS threads and hijacking that has occurred after this post started, I seriously doubt if Jeff will jump in and even dignify this post with a comment.
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Charles

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2006, 08:36:37 AM »
Jeff's accomplishment is definitely more impressive than even the 3 possible 900's Mushtare may or may not have rolled. We had a gentleman that rolled 4 800's in a row in the same league and that was impressive in it own right. His name is Tam Wasson. He is a good bowler as you can see from his accomplishments (41 800's, 31 300's, etc.....) and he never has gotten close to averaging 261 for a year. Revo is an excellent bowler and look at his reply to this post. Just makes Jeff's accomlishment speak for itself. As far as Mushtare, no need for the pros to prove the point, for the right money I will go to his house and bowl him as I am sure others on here will to.
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CoachJim

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2006, 09:07:16 AM »
In all of this Mushtard talk has anyone thought that maybe the kid was Amish? Maybe he did bowl 900 all of those times, but he did it in 15 frames because as we learned from King Pin the Amish do things half again more than we do.

10 frames Ha! That's for Quakers.

My hat's off to Jeff and his tremendous accomplishments. Mushtard only averaged 250 even with all of those 900s.

Jeff Carter

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2006, 09:26:54 AM »
Well i'm going to try and respond to pretty much everything in this post. If somebody asked something specific and i dont reply, ask it again and i will post an answer. First let me start by saying the i really appreciate all of the comments and support that i receive on here. I'm not on these boards trying to promote myself, i am just trying to give something back to the sport in any way that i can.

Now about the average record. I've stated in numerous articles and interviews that the average record is something that i'm not proud of from the standpoint that it should never have been allowed to happen. The fact that the state of bowling has allowed itself to get this far is totally sickening. My opinion has always been that the best bowlers in the world are on the PBA Tour, and that the highest recorded average should be the Tour average leader. To me thats just common sense. Is there a guy sitting in Cheyene, Wy that is a better hitter than Barry Bonds ? ( no steroid jokes please !!! ). Is there a guy in Battle Creek, Mi that is a better golfer than Tiger Woods ? My point is that the best bowlers in the world are on the PBA Tour, not in some wednesday night mixed league in Smyrna, Ga. So with that being said, the average record and all of this 900 series nonsense should never have happened in the first place. I have many opinions on this whole "pre-bowled" 900 series nonsense, but i'm going to keep them to myself. My advice to Robert Mushtare is this: whether you accomplished what you say you did or not, you need to admit that the scoring environment is what got you this accomplishment and not your "superior" talent. For those of you that want to see the top bowlers in the world try and shoot 900 at this paricular bowling center, it would never happen. First of all why would they waste their time for something that means virtually nothing anymore. Somebody posted on here about how the majority of guys on Tour wouldnt be able to keep up on house patterns anymore, and he is 100% correct. I for one have a hard time going home and bowling on house patterns, mainly because i try to be too precise instead of playing a "spray" area. Everything that that poster said was dead on accurate. I couldnt have worded it any better.

Now back to the average record ( sorry for the ramble ). Like i said, its not something that im proud of because of the simple fact that it happened. With that being said, there are a few things that i can hang my hat on. First of all the lane surface at the time was guardian. Now if you arent familiar with guardian, its the softest and most unpredictable lane surface made. Brunswick Pro-Anvilane tests out in the 90s on the hardness test compared to sheet glass, where guardian tests out at 4 !!! Second, it was during a five man team league. Most of you already know how the lanes transition during your normal five man team leagues, right ??? Now pair that up with a league that alternates early to late every week. One week you bowl early, the next week you bowl late following another five man team league ( no re-oil ). My average was actually 264 on the late nights. For me those are the things that i can take from this record that i can be proud of. The 261 is just a number, its not important. What was important is being able to adapt to the environment and make it work. Too me that was the real accomplishment.

As far as how close did i get to 900, i guess i really dont know. It depends on how you look at that. Sure there were nights when i never missed the pocket and only left a handful of ring 10s and solid 9s, but if there is anybody out there that thinks that those "should have been" you are sorrily mistaken. Carry is all about matching speed up with entry angle ( and luck ). I had 830 both of the first 2 weeks, but i wouldnt consider that close to 900. The only 2 times i've been close was my 278-300-300 for 878 ( but thats not very close to me since it was over in the 4th frame of the first game ). The other was the night i started with the front 23, solid 8. Other than that, not even close. I have several 840s and 850s but like i said, i dont consider that close.

Too reply to Mike Austins post ( first of all thanks ), i dont really consider my game special in any way. Its something that ive worked very hard to develop and still do today. My game has evolved a lot since the year that i set the average record ( as a matter of fact, not much is the same ). Mike was right about my swing, i try to make my swing as loose and free as possible. That allows me to focus more on the bottom of the swing and be a little more versatile with my release. The days of having an A,B and C game are long game. Nowadays your B and C game have to be your A game whenever you're using them ( everybody confused yet ??? ). If you are bowling WRW and you have to play straight, you better be good at it. Twice i've taken him to 7 games playing his A game. I lost both times, which tells me i'm just not good enough, YET.

The key to this topic shouldnt be which one of the accomplishments is the bigger feat, but which one is the bigger farse ??? Under legitimate lane conditions, the chance of averaging 261 or bowling 900 is very remote. In my opinion, neither should have ever happened.

Thanks for giving me the floor for a while. Sorry to take up half of your day reading my garbage
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tekneek

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Re: A question for and about Jeff Carter
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2006, 09:49:11 AM »
A class act giving a class act response.
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