Author Topic: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers (Read 11747 times)

Zanatos1914 · « **on:** September 05, 2007, 12:13:52 AM »

Personally I have a problem with them bowling in our tournaments because the odds are in favor of the PBA in open lanes. They didn't get the title Professional Bowler for just being avg bowlers. Don't get me wrong because I have beaten some PBA but open play tournament should be off limits...

Zanatos1914 · « **Reply #16 on:** September 05, 2007, 11:29:07 AM »

Okay - Now we are getting somewhere..

Most PBA get free balls and etc before they even come out for everone else. I can live with that because this is there job and this is recreation for me.. Okay I might practice allot to get my skills to a certain level but still this is there job.

If PBA's step down and declare themselves as not professions and bowl I am cool with that. The kicker is the word Professional...

Professionals should only play against people of there on skill level which should be professionals...

Oskuposer · « **Reply #17 on:** September 05, 2007, 11:30:09 AM »

People these days want everything on a silver platter. Rome wasn't built in a day. In order to be the best you have to bowl the best. Sounds like some people have no balls pun intended because they want to be a big fish in a small pond. House Hacks i find make up the majority. I agree with jeff.
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Kiall Hill
Visionary test staff

Jeff Carter · « **Reply #18 on:** September 05, 2007, 11:35:54 AM »

Zanatos - i agree with you but not the way you think. Let professionals bowl against professionals for prize money and let amateurs bowl against amateurs for something else. You cant have it both ways....you're either a professional or an amateur and amateurs arent allowed to compete for cash prizes in other sports

Jorge - i wont disagree with you about eliminated exempt players, i've put those rules into some of the tournaments that i've run....even though it excludes myself ( i never bowl in the tournaments that i run anyway ). The the PBA membership is over 4000 members, and most of them are no different that most of you. You cant single them out for having the guts to compete against the best each and every weekend. I encourage the regional players to bowl in my local events, hoping that it will not only strenghten the field but to also strengthen the quality of bowling in my area
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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295

AngloBowler · « **Reply #19 on:** September 05, 2007, 11:35:58 AM »

I think as far as exempting is concerned, it does depend on the level of bowling you're trying to attract.

If you're running a handicap tournament then it may be advisable to reduce the number of high average bowlers in it.
However, I am of the belief that scratch tournaments should be open to pros and amateurs alike. I still think prize money has it's place in tournament play for the talented amateurs (sorry to disagree Jeff) but if you're attempting to prove yourself as a scratch bowling competitor, then you've got to be willing to take on any and all who turn up, regardless of ability or background.
At the end of the day, these guys are trying to make a living, and so I have no problem with them entering any tournament for which they are eligible.
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Reporting from England

cgilyeat · « **Reply #20 on:** September 05, 2007, 11:40:13 AM »

I don't think we are getting anywhere. You are leaving out the "Professional Amateurs" (i.e., the Tim Mack's of the world), the bowlers who don't have a PBA card, but could if te wanted, and still make their living from bowling. They are just as much a professional (and in many cases more so) than anyone who holds a PBA card. As far as I'm concerned, the only restrictions any scratch tournament should even think having is to restrict the tour exempt bowlers, and I'm not even sure I agree with that.

And yes, I am a PBA member and I completely agree with Jeff.

The SuperHitMan · « **Reply #21 on:** September 05, 2007, 11:40:48 AM »

Hey dude...i'm from North Dakota and i've got 5-300's and 3-800's and i just won our city tournament. You think you can get me on staff

"

What am i supposed to say to this guy ? I can list 5000 guys that have stronger credentials, but obviosly this guy thinks he is owed something.

Or maybe he has a dream of being a "Staffer" and thinks that you could help him, every bowler at some point and time wants/wanted to be a staffer.
--------------------
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Jeff Carter · « **Reply #22 on:** September 05, 2007, 11:48:44 AM »

Ok my thoughts got misread a little....i by no means think that bowling for prize money shouldnt be allowed for amateurs. My point was you cant have it both ways. You cant eliminate a group of bowlers from being able to compete for said prize money.

SuperHitMan - i understand your point, but at what point did it become evident that everybody deserves to be on a staff or to get free equipment. I love golf, but i'm not going to contact Nike because i feel like i deserve a new set of clubs....and i bet the best golfer in your town wouldnt either. Why is bowling so different ? Because nobody knows how to differentiate professionals from amateurs. One group has a piece of plastic in their pocket that says that they are a PBA member, but there are thousands of people around the country that out-average me. What does that tell you

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Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295

Phillip Marlowe · « **Reply #23 on:** September 05, 2007, 11:59:51 AM »

Tell you what. If you believe professionals (people who bowl to make money) don't belong in tournaments that you enter, then don't enter tournaments that offer prize money. Bowl for trophies, like amateur golfers.

And what about someone who actually makes a living bowling tournaments but does not decide to become a PBA member, should he or she be allowed to bowl in your tournaments? This is NOT a hypothetical question.
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"Now lets see you do something really tough. Like getting up."

AngloBowler · « **Reply #24 on:** September 05, 2007, 12:13:52 PM »

Jeff,

Sounds like we're on a similar wavelength, sorry if I misinterpreted.

But seriously if you want to exclude players, you could take the route of the TAT and exclude people based on tournament winnings, although obviously harder to police for the average regional player, it will prevent many of the exmpet players from turning up.
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Reporting from England

shelley · « **Reply #25 on:** September 05, 2007, 12:15:32 PM »

quote:
"Hey dude...i'm from North Dakota and i've got 5-300's and 3-800's and i just won our city tournament. You think you can get me on staff "

Tell him to contact the International Staff coordinator. North Dakota isn't even a state anymore.

SH

justdale · « **Reply #26 on:** September 05, 2007, 12:19:06 PM »

Jeff I agree with you for the most part,

I think what hurt the game awhile back was the beginning of the High Roller Tournaments. It excluded the PBA member, where in fact it should've been promoting it as its own. Back in the late 80's and early 90's it never should've been a chance for the amateur to win that kind of money, I mean at one time it was more money than the pro's could've thought of making.

As you look at golf tournaments, there are a ton of tournaments every year, they have what I like to call a minor league, a major league and a senior league. I know these aren't the proper terms but like I said it's what I like to call them. There is a lot of money to be made at all levels, but, you have to be a professional.

And here is where I tend to disagree with Jeff Carter; but he has his opinion and I have mine.
If you don't wish to bowl against professionals, then you should have a rule in place that states:

NO PBA MEMBERS

I mean as an amateur we just cant go to any PBA event and compete right into the main event ( with the exception of " The Masters" " The US Open") we can go on Tuesday's or Wednesday and try and bowl our way into the tournament
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff

dw23 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 05, 2007, 12:29:13 PM »

I think the confusion here is caused by caling bowling a sport. Golf and bowling are not sports. They are games of competition like Billiards. In a competition you have amateurs and professionals and they both compete for money. Sometimes they complete together and sometime they compete separate. That's they way it should be. At the discretion of the tournament director. If bowling was a sport like Basketball or Football it wouldn't be fair for professionals to participate with amateurs.

Just my opinion.
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Thanks,
DW

dechrist · « **Reply #28 on:** September 05, 2007, 12:30:00 PM »

quote:

Bowling is the only sport where people dont want to be challenged. Everybody always wants the easy way out, whether it be competition or lane conditions. This is why the sport is fading fast...too many people are looking for the "easy button" instead of working to raise their own talent level.

Here's something to chew on...make bowling just like every other sport then. Dont allow professionals to compete against amateurs. But that also means that to remain an amateur, you wont be allowed to compete for prize money. You cant have it both ways. I've worked my butt off for 25 years to get myself to this point, and i'm sick and tired of listening to people complain that certain groups shouldnt be allowed to compete. Sorry folks but thats profiling, and profiling is wrong !!!

Amen. Thank you Jeff.

I want the chance to bowl against (and with) the pros. No, I have no chance of appearing on the tour, and a slightly better chance of carrying a high enough average to become a PBA member.

One of the things that makes bowling cool (if I can use that term) is that I can compete against professionals in leagues and in tournaments. Will they kick my tail all over the place? Usually. Will they give me some pointers? Almost always.

I'd like to see the USBC set up a rule to where the oiling ratios can be no more than 5:1. It still makes it harder than the THS, but not as hard as the PBA (3:1) and USBC sport patterns (2.5:1), if I remember correctly. I think that would bring back some of the "sport" back into the game.

I bowled Summer Singles league that featured USBC sport patterns, and I've bowled in 2 (unsanctioned) PBA experience leagues. My house is trying to get a sanctioned league going his fall.

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Dale

My 2007-2008 arsenal is here.

Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
-- General George S. Patton

Phillip Marlowe · « **Reply #29 on:** September 05, 2007, 12:33:17 PM »

quote:

I mean as an amateur we just cant go to any PBA event and compete right into the main event ( with the exception of " The Masters" " The US Open") we can go on Tuesday's or Wednesday and try and bowl our way into the tournament

Not true. You can enter regional PBA events. National events require you to "qualify" but isn't that the right thing -- go through a qualifying round? And big money events are still around for "amateurs." Look, I have no patience for amateurs who want to bowl for substantial amounts of money and then say...well, don't let someone who presumably can beat me in. If you bowl for money, you are about the money and should recognize that MONEY is the object. Thus, professionals, who bowl for MONEY should be allowed. If you don't like it, don't bowl for MONEY.
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"Now lets see you do something really tough. Like getting up."

justdale · « **Reply #30 on:** September 05, 2007, 12:33:33 PM »

I don't know about that analogy, there are a lot of people playing basketball in the streets of NY and L.A. that are just as good if not better than some of the NBA players, they just didn't go to college, or they had some legal issues.

IMO as long as you have to combine a mental aspect along with a physical attribute, it is a sport
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Dale Williams
Columbia 300 Utah Amateur Staff

Author Topic: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers (Read 11747 times)

Zanatos1914

Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

Zanatos1914

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

Oskuposer

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

Jeff Carter

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

AngloBowler

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

cgilyeat

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

The SuperHitMan

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

Jeff Carter

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

Phillip Marlowe

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

AngloBowler

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

shelley

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

justdale

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

dw23

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

dechrist

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

Phillip Marlowe

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

justdale

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers