Author Topic: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers (Read 11753 times)

Zanatos1914 · « **on:** September 05, 2007, 12:13:52 AM »

Personally I have a problem with them bowling in our tournaments because the odds are in favor of the PBA in open lanes. They didn't get the title Professional Bowler for just being avg bowlers. Don't get me wrong because I have beaten some PBA but open play tournament should be off limits...

dw23 · « **Reply #31 on:** September 05, 2007, 12:45:28 PM »

Skeet shooting takes both physical and mental. Billiards takes both. My theory is if there's no Defense there's no sport. As for basketball players on the playground, they may have physical abilities but usually not the mental aspect to be a professional.
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Thanks,
DW

Edited on 9/5/2007 12:53 PM

Jeff Carter · « **Reply #32 on:** September 05, 2007, 01:44:57 PM »

Justdale....the US Open is the largest pro-am in the world. For $500.00, anybody can shoe up and have a chance to cross with and bowl with some of the greatest bowlers in the world. You cant do that in the PGA, can you ?

As for your thought that you cant just bowl any PBA event that you want...not true. The only restrictions that exist on non-members is on the regional level, if you cash more than twice you must join or wait until the next season to bowl again. On the National level, if you win the amateur spot into a tour stop, you cant compete as an amateur again until the next tour season. These rules are in place to promote membership, not keep people out.

The way things are going, the only tournaments that PBA members would be allowed to compete in are PBA events. Then how is everybody else supposed to measure their talents and know if and when they are ready to compete on the next level

Some of you may not agree with my thoughts, just like i dont agree with some of yours. But that doesnt mean that i dont value and respect your opinions. Without healthy discussions like this, nothing will ever be accomplished
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295

MegaMav · « **Reply #33 on:** September 05, 2007, 01:50:22 PM »

quote:
Bowling is the only sport where people dont want to be challenged. Everybody always wants the easy way out, whether it be competition or lane conditions. This is why the sport is fading fast...too many people are looking for the "easy button" instead of working to raise their own talent level.

I whole heartedly agree with this statement 100%.

JOE FALCO · « **Reply #34 on:** September 05, 2007, 02:37:39 PM »

I've read all (perhaps most) of this .. I fall in the group that believes PBA members do NOT belong in tournaments (other then those designed for PBA members).

What is the reason WHY PBA members believe they should be in non PBA tournaments? I prefer NOT HEARING it's to benefit the amateurs!

Once a bowler takes the step to compete in PBA competition (i.e., takes the CARD) he has placed himself above the NON PBA group. They do this of their own free will! If they are confident they are above the amateur group .. they should stand behind THEIR decision.

If I want to bowl with the PRO's I have the PRO/AM tournament!

(I'm not joining this discussion to make enemies but to voice my opinion!)
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Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O

Edited on 9/5/2007 2:39 PM

Spider Ball Bowler · « **Reply #35 on:** September 05, 2007, 03:08:36 PM »

Isn't there anyone left out there that just wants to bowl? I remember a time when that's what it was about. Getting out there, lacing up your shoes and doing your best and having fun...bowling.

I come on here and read how "I am not good, because I don't bowl sport conditions, that THS averages don't mean anything, that pros shouldn't be able to compete with me, cuz they're far superior."

If I bowled in tournaments for the money, I'd never bowl one ever. Doesn't anyone just like the excitement knowing that today could be your day? I have no problem not bowling for money, heck give me a trophy and a pat on the back if I win....

I just want to bowl.
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Formerly SGC300

Jeff Carter · « **Reply #36 on:** September 05, 2007, 03:12:55 PM »

Ok Joe...i'll give you my take on this. I bowl in anything that i can ( or at least i used to ). I like to support my local asscociation and their tournaments. I also know that its tough enough to get people to bowl the way it is anymore, so most tournament directors are begging to get all the entries that they can. Whats wrong with me wanting to support the sport ? I've dedicated most of my life to helping this sport grow, but for the first time in a very long time i'm getting to the point that i just dont care anymore. I'm tired of everybody working against one another. There are too many organizations that have their own agendas. Same thing here, instead of welcoming all competitors....you want to eliminate the people that you feel you cant beat. What good does that do you ? I'll be the first to say that i'm not in Pete, Walter, TJ, etc caliber....but that doesnt stop me from working harder and harder. I just dont get the thinking of people that shy away from stiffer competition. I want to bowl in local events for the support of the sport and the love of bowling. Thanks to people like you, i cant bowl in the majority of the events in my hometown ( including the biggest tournament in Central Illinois ) because PBA members arent allowed. I supported this event for over 20 years without fail, now they tell me that i cant bowl anymore. Tell me how thats fair. I was good enough to bowl in it years ago, but because i've worked endlessly to make myself better i'm not allowed anymore. Thats like telling somebody that works to improve their position at their job that we have to let you go because the other employees are afraid that you'll make them look bad. Take a step back and ask yourself this.....is it the PBA members that are ruining things, or is it me

--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295

dechrist · « **Reply #37 on:** September 05, 2007, 03:25:22 PM »

quote:
I've read all (perhaps most) of this .. I fall in the group that believes PBA members do NOT belong in tournaments (other then those designed for PBA members).

What is the reason WHY PBA members believe they should be in non PBA tournaments? I prefer NOT HEARING it's to benefit the amateurs!

Once a bowler takes the step to compete in PBA competition (i.e., takes the CARD) he has placed himself above the NON PBA group. They do this of their own free will! If they are confident they are above the amateur group .. they should stand behind THEIR decision.

If I want to bowl with the PRO's I have the PRO/AM tournament!

(I'm not joining this discussion to make enemies but to voice my opinion!)
--------------------
Hit them light and watch them fight
J O E - F A L C O

Edited on 9/5/2007 2:39 PM

If what you're saying is true, then I suppose the USBC Masters should exclude PBA members as well.

I think that bowling (PBA and USBC) needs to attract as many bowlers as possible, and I think that best way to approach that is to allow PBA members (maybe not Exempt players like Jeff mentioned earlier in this thread).

I have bowled in a PBA Pro-Am, and got to meet Guppy Troup. It's okay, but it's not the same level of competition as a "normal" tournament (No offense, Jeff), nor is it meant to be. I'd do it again, but I'd have more fun with it, and not be sooo serious with it.

I've bowled in All-Star qualifiers where PBA members were not allowed to bowl. If you don't want to bowl against PBA members, discuss your concerns with the tournament director, or just don't bowl in those events, but I think there's a lot that is missed by that.

--------------------
Dale

My 2007-2008 arsenal is here.

Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity.
-- General George S. Patton

tdub36tjt · « **Reply #38 on:** September 05, 2007, 03:40:08 PM »

Not wanting to bowl against someone who is better than you is ridiculous. I feel the best way to improve is by bowling with people better than you (which there always will be someone). If you don't feel that way maybe the best bet is to stay home and play a video game on the easiest level. I have only been bowling seriously two years now and if I never bowled in something because there may be a PROFESSIONAL there, there would have been a lot of things I never learned. If you don't feel like you can win a tournament and you don't feel like you can learn anything by bowling in it, then I say don't but don't fault someone else who feels they can. Just my opinion.

Jorge300 · « **Reply #39 on:** September 05, 2007, 03:59:33 PM »

Wow, I just can't believe some of the posts in this thread. It is really a shame to see what bowling has become. I think Jeff C hit the nail on the head when he said people don't want to be challenged. Again I ask why are you lumping all PBA members together? I have bowled a few regionals in my area, and I see a large group of bowlers that wouldn't win my league's high average. Yet they are out there trying there best. And you want to discriminate against them because they paid their money to get a peice of paper? Ridiculous. If you want to exclude an exempt player, I have no issues with that. But any PBA member is wrong, 100% wrong. Jeff C gave a very personal example of what this means. But look at it this way. I am lucky enough to bowl in an area that has 4-5 regionals a year within a reasonable distance. If I bowl all of them and cash, I would have to join the PBA to get my money after the first 2. Did I suddenly get that much better then you??? It was fine to bowl in your tournament yesterday, but I can't today because I took a chance and won money, not even winning a tournament mind you, just cashed, in 1 too many regionals.

I am not here to to create enemies or anything like that, but some of you need to grow up and grow a set. Just because you lack the self-confidence, the motivation, or the manhood to get better and to compete against the best, they shouldn't be allowed to bowl in your tournaments. This is a problem with you not the PBA members, so why should they be singled out. Jeff C it would a honor to bowl against you in any tournament. You have shown yourself to be class act, a true representative of our SPORT, and truly one of the 64 best bowlers around ( I thought you made it in, if I am qrong I apologize and you should be

). Good luck to you sir.
--------------------
Jorge300

"Some time, when the crew is up against it, and the breaks are beating the boys, tell 'em to get out there and give it all they've got. And win just one for the Zipper. I don't know where I'll be then Doc, he said. But I won't smell too good, that's for sure."

bhman79 · « **Reply #40 on:** September 05, 2007, 04:13:07 PM »

I bowl 3-4 leagues a week and a couple of local tournaments a month. I averaged around 220 last year and 191 for my PBA league. Haven't been to any regionals yet but it is something I hope to try some day (Still more work to do!). From that perspective, my opinion is let everyone bowl in a tournament that wants to bowl. Ronnie Russell, who recently became exempt, has bowled at one of the local tournaments that I go to for the past few years. Granted, he has won his fair share of these tournaments, but I have still had my cashes. I feel bowling with someone that good can only make your game better. The other reason I feel this way is because of the money. I'm not sure what all benefits come with being a staff member, but these guys aren't making the millions that professionals in other sports are making and therefore, should be able to bowl in anything they want to. If I were to show up at a tournament, get my butt kicked by Jeff Carter, and learn a few things along the way, I would consider that a successful day. Then I can go back to league and try to win a few brackets.

tburky · « **Reply #41 on:** September 05, 2007, 04:18:06 PM »

quote:
Justdale....the US Open is the largest pro-am in the world. For $500.00, anybody can shoe up and have a chance to cross with and bowl with some of the greatest bowlers in the world. You cant do that in the PGA, can you ?

As for your thought that you cant just bowl any PBA event that you want...not true. The only restrictions that exist on non-members is on the regional level, if you cash more than twice you must join or wait until the next season to bowl again. On the National level, if you win the amateur spot into a tour stop, you cant compete as an amateur again until the next tour season. These rules are in place to promote membership, not keep people out.

The way things are going, the only tournaments that PBA members would be allowed to compete in are PBA events. Then how is everybody else supposed to measure their talents and know if and when they are ready to compete on the next level

Some of you may not agree with my thoughts, just like i dont agree with some of yours. But that doesnt mean that i dont value and respect your opinions. Without healthy discussions like this, nothing will ever be accomplished
--------------------
Bowl up a Storm,
Jeff Carter
www.stormbowling.com
www.jeffcarterbowling.com
www.myspace.com/jeff1295

I can remember in the early 90's going to amateur qualifiers for the U.S. Open. This was the only way I believe an amateur could bowl in the main tournament. It should not be hand over $500 and you get to bowl in the tournament with your 165 average. Bring back those qualifiers.

dw23 · « **Reply #42 on:** September 05, 2007, 04:35:35 PM »

You probably won't win brackets if a PBA member is in your league. I bowl local tournaments and I have bowled regionals and other national events. Local tournaments are for house hacks that have a job and bowl one to two leagues a week with no time for practice. Regional and National events are for serious bowlers looking for all challenges. You can't tell me it's fair for the league bowler to bowl a local handicapped tournament against Walter Ray or Tommy Jones. Bowling is the professionals job and they usually have many more resources and practice time than any house hack can ever have. What can the house hack learn from getting beat by Tommy Jones in a tournament 10 pairs away. When I want that kind of competition I go to regionals.

For the record, I can't bowl most of the local handicapped tournaments either but I support my friends.
--------------------
Thanks,
DW

kmanestor22 · « **Reply #43 on:** September 05, 2007, 04:47:08 PM »

Eugene McCune bowled our PBA sweeper all summer, winning first place more than half the time (as he should). We averaged 57 entries. Maybe some people do want a challenge. Most are just afraid of committing to a league. The show up whenever you can approach works very well as long as you reward the people who keep coming back.
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Where is the bait? I'm goin' to jail!!! - Chocolate GAYzer

Phillip Marlowe · « **Reply #44 on:** September 05, 2007, 04:54:44 PM »

quote:
...You can't tell me it's fair for the league bowler to bowl a local handicapped tournament against Walter Ray or Tommy Jones.

Uh, you are wrong. It is fair. In the short form tournament, the advantage that the best bowlers have is substantially offset by (a) the ease of scoring on adult bumper lanes (which tends to mask differences among good bowlers), (b) unfamiliarity with specific houses and conditions at the time of day folks bowl, and (c) sheer luck. In fact, there is a fair case to be made that a handicapped tournament (especially one with a high handicap percentage of a high entering number (such as 90% of 220) actually favors poorer bowlers as a group over better bowlers, certainly in the singles and all events. Oh, and lets not talk about sandbaggers, shall we...

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"Now lets see you do something really tough. Like getting up."

bhman79 · « **Reply #45 on:** September 05, 2007, 05:12:05 PM »

I agree that the professionals have the advantage of more practice time and experience, but it is a risk/reward situation. I prefer to pay my bills working 40+ hours a week. If someone took the risk of becoming a full time professional and are a better bowler because of it, more power to them. I also agree that if the pro is on the other side of the house, you're not gonna learn anything, but if you make it through a few rounds, chances are you will get to bowl with them. Depending on the tournament setup, if you don't make the first cut having a few pros there probably didn't hurt you anyway.

Author Topic: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers (Read 11753 times)

Zanatos1914

Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

dw23

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

Jeff Carter

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

MegaMav

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

JOE FALCO

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

Spider Ball Bowler

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

Jeff Carter

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

dechrist

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

tdub36tjt

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

Jorge300

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

bhman79

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

tburky

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

dw23

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

kmanestor22

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

Phillip Marlowe

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers

bhman79

Re: Should PBA be allow to bowl against Avg Bowlers