Author Topic: Unanswered question to the usbc (Read 9743 times)

no300tj · « **on:** September 18, 2012, 09:08:31 PM »

Kathy, when will the USBC actually begin to protect the integrity of bowling by requiring we play on proper lane conditions instead of walled patterns that create artificial scoring levels? As bowlers we have no voice in these matters. And our sanctioning body says the proprietors can do whatever they want. How is this governing what goes on? As it stands now, bowling is bleeding members. Since the advent of reactive resin, the centers have tried to outscore one another. This philosophy hasn't stopped the mass exodus of bowlers. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. After 15+ years no one has learned a thing. When will the USBC grow a spine and DO something about it? Mandate flatter patterns at all times. Who cares if we lose bowlers, they are leaving anyway. You might as well support those that care about what it is bowling is supposed to be about. Keep in mind, they are screwing with your livelihood. At what point in time is the number of sanctioned bowlers low enough, that the USBC will cease to be necessary? T.J. Mittelstetter, Jr. 2358-6198

The above was sent to the usbc after my post about league resignation. As of today, I have not received a response. I'm not exactly sure what I expected, but I think I received the most likely result. Indifference. I'm not the greatest bowler. You can look up my lack of accomplishments if you wish, but you would think these people would want to open dialogue with the average bowlers across the country. Apparently, my rose colored glasses are making see people that care. Not encouraging.

Long Gone Daddy · « **Reply #16 on:** September 20, 2012, 02:45:27 PM »

What a boring, heard-a-thousand-times, emotional rant that will absolutely do nothing to change bowling. The USBA won't answer my letter. Boohoo. What are you not understanding when 80% of "bowlers" are once a month recreation bowlers or 140-150 avg. mixed-league bowlers and that is who USBC caters to?

Lane conditions are lane conditions. Get over it. Find a tougher shot league to bowl in or use a weaker ball on house shots.

storm making it rain · « **Reply #17 on:** September 21, 2012, 09:04:07 AM »

Plain and simple 90% of all bowlers WANT the great wall. From a center's point of view how can we not give them what they want?? Should we alienate them and then be forced to close our doors?? Now I AGREE 100% with trying to bring integrity back to our game, but unfortunately the damage has been done and I don't think it will ever get to the point of return.

Side note - I sent USBC 2 separate questions regarding their website and a rules question. I received excellent service from them with 24 hours.

dR3w · « **Reply #18 on:** September 21, 2012, 11:07:32 AM »

Quote from: storm making it rain on September 21, 2012, 09:04:07 AM

Plain and simple 90% of all bowlers WANT the great wall. From a center's point of view how can we not give them what they want?? Should we alienate them and then be forced to close our doors?? Now I AGREE 100% with trying to bring integrity back to our game, but unfortunately the damage has been done and I don't think it will ever get to the point of return.

Side note - I sent USBC 2 separate questions regarding their website and a rules question. I received excellent service from them with 24 hours.

When Golf went to huge Drivers with giant sweet spots, and Tennis went from small wooden rackets to Giant, light weight cannons, did the other sports forums talk about the demise of their respective sports and the loss of integrity? Just curious. Has the integrity of those sports been compromised because it is now easier for the average Joe to serve 120 mph or hit a drive 300 yards?

storm making it rain · « **Reply #19 on:** September 21, 2012, 11:24:39 AM »

Quote from: dR3w on September 21, 2012, 11:07:32 AM

Quote from: storm making it rain on September 21, 2012, 09:04:07 AM
Plain and simple 90% of all bowlers WANT the great wall. From a center's point of view how can we not give them what they want?? Should we alienate them and then be forced to close our doors?? Now I AGREE 100% with trying to bring integrity back to our game, but unfortunately the damage has been done and I don't think it will ever get to the point of return.

Side note - I sent USBC 2 separate questions regarding their website and a rules question. I received excellent service from them with 24 hours.

When Golf went to huge Drivers with giant sweet spots, and Tennis went from small wooden rackets to Giant, light weight cannons, did the other sports forums talk about the demise of their respective sports and the loss of integrity? Just curious. Has the integrity of those sports been compromised because it is now easier for the average Joe to serve 120 mph or hit a drive 300 yards?

Weird thing about bowling vs. golf. I'll preface this by saying i'm not an avid golfer but i enjoy playing once in a while. Seems to me, generally speaking, people want to play the toughest golf courses but dont want to play on the toughest lanes. Now maybe this has to do with the scenery of a golf course, but really just a generalized observation. I know for me and golf, I need open fairways for obvious reasons. I played an upscale course a while back and it was way out of my league and I would not go back. Now if I were really into golf I would get lessons and go back to try to tackle it again. Some people don't really want to work to get better at bowling, they want a social evening with friends. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

dR3w · « **Reply #20 on:** September 21, 2012, 11:57:07 AM »

Quote from: storm making it rain on September 21, 2012, 11:24:39 AM

Quote from: dR3w on September 21, 2012, 11:07:32 AM
Quote from: storm making it rain on September 21, 2012, 09:04:07 AM
Plain and simple 90% of all bowlers WANT the great wall. From a center's point of view how can we not give them what they want?? Should we alienate them and then be forced to close our doors?? Now I AGREE 100% with trying to bring integrity back to our game, but unfortunately the damage has been done and I don't think it will ever get to the point of return.

Side note - I sent USBC 2 separate questions regarding their website and a rules question. I received excellent service from them with 24 hours.

When Golf went to huge Drivers with giant sweet spots, and Tennis went from small wooden rackets to Giant, light weight cannons, did the other sports forums talk about the demise of their respective sports and the loss of integrity? Just curious. Has the integrity of those sports been compromised because it is now easier for the average Joe to serve 120 mph or hit a drive 300 yards?

Weird thing about bowling vs. golf. I'll preface this by saying i'm not an avid golfer but i enjoy playing once in a while. Seems to me, generally speaking, people want to play the toughest golf courses but dont want to play on the toughest lanes. Now maybe this has to do with the scenery of a golf course, but really just a generalized observation. I know for me and golf, I need open fairways for obvious reasons. I played an upscale course a while back and it was way out of my league and I would not go back. Now if I were really into golf I would get lessons and go back to try to tackle it again. Some people don't really want to work to get better at bowling, they want a social evening with friends. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

I agree, but those golf courses are all kind of unique. You get to see some of them on TV. They offer a once in a lifetime challenge. I think for some, bowling at the national stadium is sort of like that ... but not exactly. With bowling, most centers are generally the same. I think if my golf league had to play from the tips of one of the hardest courses in the country on a regular basis, it would probably give me second thoughts about playing because I couldn't afford all the golf balls. Not everyone aspires to be the best golfer in the world. Some just want to go play and have fun ... and the same probably holds true for bowling.

Stan · « **Reply #21 on:** September 21, 2012, 12:17:26 PM »

I agree with some of the other folks. Say want you want, but nothing will change.

Very few bowlers want to bowl on a hard shot. Today the norm is to bowl one league and average over 200 and think you are good. Make the shot a bit harder and you will see 20 or more higher average bowlers at the desk complaining. If the center puts down a harder shot, the bowlers will leave. This, in my opinion, is why bowling is considered a recreational activity. Something that is easy and makes you feel good when you leave.

Now, I may be a fluke, but I can not hit the easy shots. I leave tons of corner pins and splits. Yes, this can be attributed to equipment and me being stubborn with not changing my hand position. Put down a harder shot, and I will bowl with the best of them. One last thing about easy shots, if the shot was that easy, then you would have a multitude of bowlers averaging over 270 and that hasn't happened yet. (give it a few more years)

Unfortunately, the highest score you can get is 300 and there are no extra points for style, and being able to repeat shots.

Years ago, ABC opened up the flood gates and let the manufacturers develop and sell extremely powerfull bowling balls. These balls needed less skill in order for them to hook and carry strikes. Today, the manufacturers are bascially controlling our sport. USBC can not stop them, although they have made feable attempts. Factor in, synthetic lanes and oiling machines that can duplicate the same pattern day after day and you have the modern game of hight scores and averages. It is what it is, we can do nothing to stop it.

So, bowling has become a recreational activity. Go out and bowl a few games, have a few beers, tell some jokes and go home happy.

Aloarjr810 · « **Reply #22 on:** September 21, 2012, 12:40:18 PM »

Just a thought on the whole easy vs tough conditions.

It's not whether the shot is easy or hard, it's the fact it's the same pattern week after week.

You play on any pattern long enough, you get use to it and the scores go right back up.

They showed that in the PBA back when they started using harder patterns. Everyone was talking about how high the scores were, so they went to harder patterns.

The scores dropped for a few weeks, then rose right back up. They said it was because they kept using the same patterns over and over and they got use to them.

Instead of worrying about having a harder shot, why not just vary patterns.

You could have 3 or 4 "THS" patterns that you had to play a different line from week to week but still a "easy " shot.

millertime0299 · « **Reply #23 on:** September 21, 2012, 01:12:44 PM »

Quote from: Aloarjr810 on September 21, 2012, 12:40:18 PM

Just a thought on the whole easy vs tough conditions.

It's not whether the shot is easy or hard, it's the fact it's the same pattern week after week.

You play on any pattern long enough, you get use to it and the scores go right back up.

They showed that in the PBA back when they started using harder patterns. Everyone was talking about how high the scores were, so they went to harder patterns.

The scores dropped for a few weeks, then rose right back up. They said it was because they kept using the same patterns over and over and they got use to them.

Instead of worrying about having a harder shot, why not just vary patterns.

You could have 3 or 4 "THS" patterns that you had to play a different line from week to week but still a "easy " shot.

I like the idea...maybe force leagues to use the USBC Red, White, and Blue patterns on a rotating basis. This could help level the playing field somewhat. At least you wouldn't have centers putting out the easiest pattern possible and everyone in the country is bowling on the same condition for the most part. I realize topography, surface type, humidity, etc., etc. is going to vary but I feel like it's a great starting point. Easy conditions and monster hooking balls are here to stay...the least the USBC could do is make everyone play on the same patterns for league.

storm making it rain · « **Reply #24 on:** September 21, 2012, 01:22:33 PM »

Quote from: millertime0299 on September 21, 2012, 01:12:44 PM

Quote from: Aloarjr810 on September 21, 2012, 12:40:18 PM
Just a thought on the whole easy vs tough conditions.

It's not whether the shot is easy or hard, it's the fact it's the same pattern week after week.

You play on any pattern long enough, you get use to it and the scores go right back up.

They showed that in the PBA back when they started using harder patterns. Everyone was talking about how high the scores were, so they went to harder patterns.

The scores dropped for a few weeks, then rose right back up. They said it was because they kept using the same patterns over and over and they got use to them.

Instead of worrying about having a harder shot, why not just vary patterns.

You could have 3 or 4 "THS" patterns that you had to play a different line from week to week but still a "easy " shot.

I like the idea...maybe force leagues to use the USBC Red, White, and Blue patterns on a rotating basis. This could help level the playing field somewhat. At least you wouldn't have centers putting out the easiest pattern possible and everyone in the country is bowling on the same condition for the most part. I realize topography, surface type, humidity, etc., etc. is going to vary but I feel like it's a great starting point. Easy conditions and monster hooking balls are here to stay...the least the USBC could do is make everyone play on the same patterns for league.

I'll agree a rotating pattern might be nice and may bring scores down a little. BUT what will end up happening is people simply wont sanction. Again most people just want the recreation of bowling now a days, nothing wrong with that. It's a fact that the recreational bowler outweighs the serious to slightly competetive bowler.

Juggernaut · « **Reply #25 on:** September 21, 2012, 04:30:05 PM »

PEOPLE,

Bowling, as a sport, is done for.

With ball manufacturers in charge of the rules, and proprietors who cater to the masses of recreational bowlers who want to be great without the work, bowling as more than just a past time, is gone.

I agree with the poster before me that said 90% of bowlers DON'T want to be challenged, and with 100% of the owners wanting to stay in business, you can bet your a** it isn't going to happen any time soon.

milorafferty · « **Reply #26 on:** September 21, 2012, 05:22:53 PM »

I keep seeing Bowling compared to Golf, but to me it is more like Softball. We like throwing strikes/hitting home runs, so the majority of us buy the equipment and play where we have the most success. For Bowling it's the easy oil patterns, for Softball, it's the closer fences. Either way, we can drink beer and have a great time with our friends while doing it.

scotts33 · « **Reply #27 on:** September 21, 2012, 05:51:14 PM »

That's a decent comparison Milo! Slow pitch softball and THS bowling. Back in our day if you were a decent athlete/baseball player you opted for fast pitch softball. Slow pitch was for old men over 50.

Now fast pitch is pretty dead nationwide as players went to the least common denominator slow pitch....they didn't want to be challenged.

Quote from: milorafferty on September 21, 2012, 05:22:53 PM

I keep seeing Bowling compared to Golf, but to me it is more like Softball. We like throwing strikes/hitting home runs, so the majority of us buy the equipment and play where we have the most success. For Bowling it's the easy oil patterns, for Softball, it's the closer fences. Either way, we can drink beer and have a great time with our friends while doing it.

no300tj · « **Reply #28 on:** September 21, 2012, 07:03:43 PM »

I understand your stance, but I have seen one of the arguments in your original post repeated over and over, and I just don't believe it. I have never met a bowler who quit because the scores were too high or the shot was too easy. Where are all these bowlers who are leaving the sport because it is too easy?

I am not trying to argue here, but I never said easy conditions are driving bowlers away. They are leaving for a myriad of reasons. My point was that the usbc isn't governing anything when they allow the centers to dictate how the game is played. And they don't even put up any argument to defend themselves. I have been bowling in PBAX and TEAMUSAX leagues since they showed up around here. We can barely drum up enough bowlers to have the leagues.
Now, I'm sorry but you are going to have to go a long way to convince me the 140 average bowler would see much difference if they were bowling on a 5:1 ratio pattern over one that is 10:1. They have a tendency to throw the ball straight. It may even be plastic. If they would make 60% of the spares they would raise the average 20 pins.
If high scores aren't driving them away or drawing them in, WHY NOT TRY A DIFFERENT APPROACH? How many more years of decline does it take? I'm not crying because they didn't answer my letter. Nor am I ranting or whining due to the lack of bowlers. My displeasure lies with the usbc being a doormat in front of the BPAA office down the hall.

kidlost2000 · « **Reply #29 on:** September 21, 2012, 11:53:44 PM »

Instead of flatter pattern go the cheaper route and put out a lot less oil. There are always ways to take the equipment out of play. Flat patterns are on of those and so is less oil. Reverse blocks are another you rarely see anymore. Reactive resin is not the problem. Really high scores can be achieved with any surface that is made and has been done in the past. In the reactive era that has increased along with changes in the game as well. If scores was the only problem why do so many bowlers nation wide always complain about the shot they bowl on?

The other problem is not score related, it is economic. There is a large decline in jobs and a large incline in peoples cost of living. So much that many people can't afford multiple leagues like they use to or even one league. People are making budget cuts and bowling falls under that category as well. this applies to many other businesses as well if you haven't noticed. If you don't believe that then you are very naive.

David Lee Yskes · « **Reply #30 on:** September 24, 2012, 12:22:19 PM »

I actually quit bowling back in april 2005... why?? because the lane conditions became too easy... and the lack of enjoyment from seeing honor scores bowled..

this year i joined a scratch league that is 50miles away, while the local bowling alley is 4miles away...

Why did I leave ?? stupid easy bowling conditions.. Last yr, i basically bowled when i felt like it.... some days i would just throw my plastic ball.. and still shoot 570... some days, i would actually feel like bowling and would shoot 670 or so...

So now i am bowling in a house that has tougher conditions, a bigger prize fund!! and better bowlers..... who wouldnt want that?

?

Author Topic: Unanswered question to the usbc (Read 9743 times)

no300tj

Unanswered question to the usbc

Long Gone Daddy

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc

storm making it rain

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc

dR3w

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc

storm making it rain

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc

dR3w

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc

Stan

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc

Aloarjr810

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc

millertime0299

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc

storm making it rain

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Juggernaut

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc

milorafferty

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc

scotts33

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc

no300tj

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc

kidlost2000

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc

David Lee Yskes

Re: Unanswered question to the usbc