Author Topic: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list (Read 51165 times)

LyalC52 · « **on:** March 15, 2016, 02:20:42 PM »

USBC's FB page is reporting the Jackal and Carnage have been removed from the approved equipment list. I've been trying to get onto Bowl.com to read the article, but their site is down.

Anyone know why?

JamminJD · « **Reply #61 on:** March 15, 2016, 09:58:56 PM »

I posted it earlier in this thread..Second paragraph.

CoorZero · « **Reply #62 on:** March 15, 2016, 10:02:29 PM »

So what are the rumors about a future release of the Jackal? Will it just be an updated core or was it something they've had planned with a new coverstock (and obviously an updated core to go along with it now)? I might just wait a bit and go for that as a replacement if it fits what I need.

JamminJD · « **Reply #63 on:** March 15, 2016, 10:04:54 PM »

Quote from: CoorZero on March 15, 2016, 10:02:29 PM

So what are the rumors about a future release of the Jackal? Will it just be an updated core or was it something they've had planned with a new coverstock (and obviously an updated core to go along with it now)? I might just wait a bit and go for that as a replacement if it fits what I need.

This just happened today, give them some time to sort thru and figure out where to go with this.

JamminJD · « **Reply #64 on:** March 15, 2016, 10:08:19 PM »

This is the forth or fifth time this core has been approved, to me they should just grandfather the ones already in circulation and pull all undrilled like they have done in the past with other balls. This is really bad timing with USBC Tourney just starting..

Gene J Kanak · « **Reply #65 on:** March 15, 2016, 10:09:40 PM »

Ah, thanks. I saw the pic earlier, but I thought it was just another copy of the Motiv press release. I don't know who runs that Dilaura Brothers Bowling Supply, so I can't really comment as to whether or not I find that source to be credible. Again, would it shock me if that's the way it happened? No, but I'm not taking that as gospel just yet. Then again, I don't much care how it happened. If the balls were illegal, they needed to be pulled, and if I were a competitor, I wouldn't hesitate to blow the whistle info had suspicions. I mean, if I am being forced to design within certain guidelines, I wouldn't think it was no big deal if a rival was working outside the lines.

billdozer · « **Reply #66 on:** March 15, 2016, 10:18:27 PM »

Quote from: Gene J Kanak on March 15, 2016, 10:09:40 PM

Ah, thanks. I saw the pic earlier, but I thought it was just another copy of the Motiv press release. I don't know who runs that Dilaura Brothers Bowling Supply, so I can't really comment as to whether or not I find that source to be credible. Again, would it shock me if that's the way it happened? No, but I'm not taking that as gospel just yet. Then again, I don't much care how it happened. If the balls were illegal, they needed to be pulled, and if I were a competitor, I wouldn't hesitate to blow the whistle info had suspicions. I mean, if I am being forced to design within certain guidelines, I wouldn't think it was no big deal if a rival was working outside the lines.

I didn't say Brunswick guys were rejoicing someone else did. However, someone is playing dirty. I'm sure word will get out soon enough.

JamminJD · « **Reply #67 on:** March 15, 2016, 10:20:32 PM »

Quote from: Gene J Kanak on March 15, 2016, 10:09:40 PM

Ah, thanks. I saw the pic earlier, but I thought it was just another copy of the Motiv press release. I don't know who runs that Dilaura Brothers Bowling Supply, so I can't really comment as to whether or not I find that source to be credible. Again, would it shock me if that's the way it happened? No, but I'm not taking that as gospel just yet. Then again, I don't much care how it happened. If the balls were illegal, they needed to be pulled, and if I were a competitor, I wouldn't hesitate to blow the whistle info had suspicions. I mean, if I am being forced to design within certain guidelines, I wouldn't think it was no big deal if a rival was working outside the lines.

I disagree, to me thats dirty pool if thats really what happened. I own a small business that is in a very competitive field and if my competition did that to me that would effect my employees as well as my own lively hood then I would be upset. And thats what is happening to everybody that owns those balls that now all of a sudden can't use them especially with USBC tourney starting. The core has been approved 4 or 5 times. If its really that big of a deal they need to do more testing after initial testing.

CoorZero · « **Reply #68 on:** March 15, 2016, 10:24:38 PM »

Quote from: JamminJD on March 15, 2016, 10:04:54 PM

Quote from: CoorZero on March 15, 2016, 10:02:29 PM
So what are the rumors about a future release of the Jackal? Will it just be an updated core or was it something they've had planned with a new coverstock (and obviously an updated core to go along with it now)? I might just wait a bit and go for that as a replacement if it fits what I need.
This just happened today, give them some time to sort thru and figure out where to go with this.

I wasn't sure if the talk about a new Jackal was a similar situation to something like the leaked Venom Cobra or not, as in they've had it planned and some details are already out. That's all. I'm in no real hurry for another new ball since I've also recently gotten a Mastermind Intellect that was on closeout.

Gene J Kanak · « **Reply #69 on:** March 15, 2016, 10:26:40 PM »

I have to disagree. First of all, why should any of these companies follow guidelines if their competitors aren't going to? Second, this isn't USBC flip-flipping on this ball.
The balls sent in for initial testing/certification must have passed in order to ever have been legal in the first place. What's been found is that a significant percentage of the balls produced and sold by Motiv were produced in a manner that caused them to come in outside of the legal numbers. Now, either Motiv deliberately changed the specs after getting the balls approved, which I seriously doubt, or they operated too close to the limits from the start, and quality control issues caused the production balls to be produced in a way that took them outside of the legal specs. The real question to me is whether Motiv was aware of the problem and chose to look the other way (not implying-just wondering) or whether they just assumed the balls were coming out within limits as planned. I don't know because I don't know what kind of post-production testing is conducted. No matter how it happened, now that it's been caught, it can't be allowed. I feel badly for bowlers who have these balls because they are not at fault. Still, you can't allow non-confirming equipment into play regardless of who's fault it is that it got there.

JamminJD · « **Reply #70 on:** March 15, 2016, 10:29:13 PM »

Quote from: CoorZero on March 15, 2016, 10:24:38 PM

Quote from: JamminJD on March 15, 2016, 10:04:54 PM
Quote from: CoorZero on March 15, 2016, 10:02:29 PM
So what are the rumors about a future release of the Jackal? Will it just be an updated core or was it something they've had planned with a new coverstock (and obviously an updated core to go along with it now)? I might just wait a bit and go for that as a replacement if it fits what I need.
This just happened today, give them some time to sort thru and figure out where to go with this.

I wasn't sure if the talk about a new Jackal was a similar situation to something like the leaked Venom Cobra or not, as in they've had it planned and some details are already out. That's all. I'm in no real hurry for another new ball since I've also recently gotten a Mastermind Intellect that was on closeout.

Right, I think it was just talk of making adjustments to the originals or small changes.

SG17 · « **Reply #71 on:** March 15, 2016, 10:34:39 PM »

Quote from: noslouch on March 15, 2016, 09:27:00 PM

You can drive up 5mph over the posted speed limit in generally most any location without it being illegal. Unless you happen to be in serious red neck ville. At that point your 35% safer staying indoors

not getting pulled over and getting a ticket is not the same as legal. driving over the posted speed limit is illegal. period.

just as a diff of 0.601 is against USBC rules

JamminJD · « **Reply #72 on:** March 15, 2016, 10:40:14 PM »

Quote from: Gene J Kanak on March 15, 2016, 10:26:40 PM

I have to disagree. First of all, why should any of these companies follow guidelines of their competitors aren't going to? Second, this isn't USBC flip-flipping.
The balls sent in for initial testing/certification must have passed in order to ever have been legal in the first place. What's been found is that a significant percentage of the balls produced and sold by Motiv no longer met the guidelines. Now, that can happen due to something deliberate, or it can happen due to quality control issues during manufacturing and trying to get too close to the guideline in the first place. No matter how it happened, now that it's been caught, it can't be allowed. I feel badly for bowlers who have this balls because they are not at fault. Still, you can't allow non-confirming equipment into play regardless of who's fault it is that it got there.

I guess we will agree to disagree, my main point is you are starting to dip into someone lively hood and to me thats dirty. How do we know all other manufactures are legal after the fact? The jackal has been out a year before anything was brought about. Then the carnage wins a couple of big events and all of a sudden some balls show up at USBC with a note on them to spin them. I really hope this is not the case but if it is then its dirty.

This is all I am going to say until further proof, I don't want this to turn into a argument back and forth on speculation.

Ken De Beasto · « **Reply #73 on:** March 15, 2016, 10:49:27 PM »

Quote from: SG17 on March 15, 2016, 10:34:39 PM

Quote from: noslouch on March 15, 2016, 09:27:00 PM
You can drive up 5mph over the posted speed limit in generally most any location without it being illegal. Unless you happen to be in serious red neck ville. At that point your 35% safer staying indoors

not getting pulled over and getting a ticket is not the same as legal. driving over the posted speed limit is illegal. period.

just as a diff of 0.601 is against USBC rules

Exactly not being pulled over doesn't mean its legal lol nor is USBC not enforcing rules equal its legal..

noslouch · « **Reply #74 on:** March 15, 2016, 11:51:55 PM »

Regardless of what the numbers were. The ball made it thru USBC testing and passed. As far as using it in tournaments the ball is still LEGAL to use in NON SANCTIONED tournaments. Since the ball is still stamped USBC CERTIFIED. High Diff. balls do not suit everyone's style of bowling. Once you punch finger holes and weight hole in a ball the Diff. can be increased by drilling the weight hole further from center line. Which in point makes about 90% of balls drilled illegal.
Driving over 11 miles over the posted speed limit is illegal. not 1 or 2 or 3. Unless your in a school zone with children around

Ken De Beasto · « **Reply #75 on:** March 15, 2016, 11:59:49 PM »

Quote from: noslouch on March 15, 2016, 11:51:55 PM

Regardless of what the numbers were. The ball made it thru USBC testing and passed. As far as using it in tournaments the ball is still LEGAL to use in NON SANCTIONED tournaments. Since the ball is still stamped USBC CERTIFIED. High Diff. balls do not suit everyone's style of bowling. Once you punch finger holes and weight hole in a ball the Diff. can be increased by drilling the weight hole further from center line. Which in point makes about 90% of balls drilled illegal.
Driving over 11 miles over the posted speed limit is illegal. not 1 or 2 or 3. Unless your in a school zone with children around

Are u kidding me right now?? What's the point of speed limit if your allowed to go faster.....

And so what if the ball past the test at that time. Any company could easily change the production after passing. Just like how people cheat smog. Slap your OEM parts to past the test right after slap whatever the hell you want.

You gotta be trolling me

Author Topic: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list (Read 51165 times)

LyalC52

Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

JamminJD

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

CoorZero

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

JamminJD

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

JamminJD

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

Gene J Kanak

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

billdozer

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

JamminJD

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

CoorZero

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

Gene J Kanak

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

JamminJD

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

SG17

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

JamminJD

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

Ken De Beasto

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noslouch

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list

Ken De Beasto

Re: Jackal and Carnage removed from USBC approved list