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Author Topic: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...  (Read 9116 times)

Ric Clint

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You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« on: February 15, 2004, 02:01:02 PM »
And it said something about that most of the PRO's and REGIONAL guys love it for a polish. And how it doesn't change the grit of the ball, it just adds polish (meaning if you sand a ball to 600 and then apply Black Magic afterwards, that the ball stays at 600 underneath the polish)... some polishes out there have some type of abrasive in them that smoothes out the surface as it's polishing the ball.

So it looks like you could take a ball and sand it down really low to like 320-400 and then use Black Magic and the ball would have length and MORE backend than if you used some other type of polish.

The Black Magic polish would give the ball length for extra energy retention while the 320-400 sanded finish UNDERNEATH the Black Magic would give it more "grip/bite" in the backend therefore making the ball turnover harder...???

Agree... or am I way off base on this???






Edited on 2/16/2004 6:04 AM

 

ambi1

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2004, 09:32:44 PM »
quote:
quote:
I was at a Storm seminar with my girlfriend who was getting lessons. Anyway the Storm rep there said that Black Magic polishes used in conjunction with STORM RESIN BALLS kill the reaction of the ball. Something about the material in storm resins and the properties in Black Magic polish dont mix well. Just food for thought.


Don't you wish the manufacturers would give bowlers a heads up on things like this?  I believe it was Doug Sterner who posted here about Neo Tac Renew It not agreeing with Hammer reactives (pre Ebonite).  

This is information we need.

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Edited on 2/24/2004 0:30 AM



Whoa... not you've got me worried, any bad reactions with ebonite covers?  And yes I do wish the manufacturers would give an accepted cleaners/solution list.
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Ric Clint

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2004, 04:22:34 AM »
quote:
I've done a few balls where I put on a slightly heavier than normal dose of Black Magic and I got a LOT more length and a lot more ERRATIC backend.


Charlest,

When you say that the backend became ERRATIC... what did you mean by this? That the backend was so strong that it hooked too much and was too uncontrolable... or that it was inconsistent where as one ball would hook up strong and the next ball would come in late?

Which one did you mean?



quote:
I was at a Storm seminar with my girlfriend who was getting lessons. Anyway the Storm rep there said that Black Magic polishes used in conjunction with STORM RESIN BALLS kill the reaction of the ball. Something about the material in storm resins and the properties in Black Magic polish dont mix well. Just food for thought.


Hmmm... that's interesting!!!



quote:
I wanted to add to this thread that since it was started I have polished my Blueberry Saw with Black magic twice. The first time I used it, it added a light gloss to the ball, and didn't seem to affect the reaction in any adverse way. The second time I applied it I definitely noticed a negative effect on the balls reaction. I've since wet sanded, and now I'm trying to decide between taking it to the pro shop and getting another brand of polish.


Hmmm... that's interesting also!!! You know, Black Magic may NOT be as good/safe as it's hyped up to be? I mean, sure the pro's all recommend it, but now I'm starting to wonder about Black Magic! I just wonder if the Pro's know what they're talking about on this one? I've heard several Negitive's about Black Magic on here and other places.

I think I may stay away from Black Magic.


Does anybody know anything about TRACK's "Magic Shine"? How high does it polish a ball up to? And does it keep the backend strong, or kill it like maybe Black Magic might possibly be doing?




charlest

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2004, 07:21:41 AM »
quote:
quote:
I've done a few balls where I put on a slightly heavier than normal dose of Black Magic and I got a LOT more length and a lot more ERRATIC backend.


Charlest,

When you say that the backend became ERRATIC... what did you mean by this? That the backend was so strong that it hooked too much and was too uncontrolable... or that it was inconsistent where as one ball would hook up strong and the next ball would come in late?

Which one did you mean?




I mean inconsistent reaction. Sometimes it seemed to kill the backend and sometimes it just went longer, as a heavier application would seem to allow. It seemed to vary by ball. Maybe the guy who indicated it "killed" Storm's balls, or rather their brand of reactive covers was right. Sinc eoil seems to affect different brands of resin covers differently, maybe different polishes affect these different resins differently also.

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Brickguy221

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2004, 08:41:35 AM »
Rick, I've heard and read all of those things too. Have heard similar comments about Neo Tac Hook-It and Re-New It. True or not, I don't know. I just wish somepne that really knows would clairify these "hearsays."

Although I am not a Storm Ball fan, I have just started using Storm Steps 1-2-3 Polishes, but haven't used them enough to make a judgement call on them. Can anyone speak about these polishes.

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kendog

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #20 on: March 24, 2004, 09:12:00 AM »
My pro used Storm Reacta shine on my Blueberry and my Thing returns, both with excellent results. One thing I won't do is give up on a ball just because I made a mistake in cover prep. I really think for me (emphasis on ME) I like to always scuff a ball before I apply polish; that way I expose fresh material in the cover. That's the one lesson I've learned lately. I won't just apply polish again. The same thing goes with Elixir. I've talked to many bowlers who were dissatisfied with the stuff because it killed the reaction. Take that for what it's worth.
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da Shiv

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #21 on: March 24, 2004, 10:06:19 AM »
I'm not a Storm ball fan either, but I've been using their Step 1,2,& 3 polishes for a long time, and the results I get from them are totally satisfactory and seem to be just as advertised.  The Step 2 polish in particular seems to be a little higher viscosity than may really be necessary, and needs to be used with a lot of water; it seems to me anyway.

I really like all of the Neotac products and am very satisfied with all of them.  I've never gotten a bad result on any ball from any manufacturer with any of these products.

I haven't been using Black Magic for very long, and I don't really need it that much anyway.  My initial results were very good, but I don't have long term experience with it, and some of the comments on this board recently have made me a little cautious about it.

Outside of the Neotac stuff, my personal favorites in terms of good results have always been the Ebonite line.  I use a lot of the Powerhouse Quicksand, and the even older stuff called simply "2000."  It was part of step by step line they once had that included 900, 3000, and 5000.  There were six in the line--I'm not sure what the others were--I believe there was a 600 as well.  I stocked up on some of these when they were discontinued.  (I try to remember to shake them all up occasionally, since I'm not going through them very fast.)  Some bowling supply house was getting rid of the Ebonite numerical line not too long ago and sent me a flyer in the mail with outrageously low prices like $2.00 for an 8 or 10 oz. bottle.  I spent about $20 and now I have a basement full of polish.  

Storm hiked up their prices to distributors by a very large margin not too long ago.  I don't know what was behind that--the stuff itself seems the same.

I tried some Track Magic Clean 'N' Polish awhile ago.  It advertises a 5000 finish, and it is indeed shinier than anything else I've used.  (Storm's Diamond Gloss advertised 5000 also, but I never tried that and it's defunct now.)  The Clean 'N' Polish makes a marginally higher shine than Storm's Xtra Shine, which advertises 3500.  Applying Black Magic on top of Clean 'N' Polish actually dulls the ball a bit!  I have only once needed to use the ball with the Clean 'N' Polish on it and the results were what I expected and were satisfactory, but once isn't enough to make any kind of worthwhile evaluation of the product.

Shiv
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Brickguy221

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2004, 11:46:59 AM »
Shiv, thanks for your input. Rest assured, I will put it to good use.

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Brickguy221

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #23 on: March 24, 2004, 11:56:10 AM »
Kendog, I read your post and
Quote
....[The same thing goes with Elixir. I've talked to many bowlers who were dissatisfied with the stuff because it killed the reaction. Take that for what it's worth.]
----------------------------------------------------------------

I tried using it for 3-4 months and the same thing happened to me. Since I don't have "much hand" and low revs, I had to quit using it. In addition to killing the action, it also caused my balls to "skid thru the break point." Even changing the ball surface didn't help. With higher revs, it might have worked for me, but with my low revs, it didn't.

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Edited on 3/24/2004 12:52 PM
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Da Mutant Yoot

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #24 on: March 24, 2004, 11:18:03 PM »
Regarding the Neo-Tac Hook It, I have used it for several months, cleaning each and every ball that I own, before every set.  From what I have seen, it cleans the coverstock extremely well and leaves that desirable tacky feeling.  Most of the time I clean the ball on my ball spinner with it. Throwing the ball after the cleaning it reacts exactly as new in the box and lasts longer than advertised.  I swear by Hook it.  It doesn't do anything to the coverstock other than remove lane oil, and belt marks and leave a tacky feeling to the coverstock. Just my 2 cents.
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Brickguy221

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2004, 12:31:15 AM »
Da Mutant, what procedure do you use with the Hook-It and spinner. For example, do you put it on with the spinner running and clean off while still running, or do you put it on the ball and let it soak in how long?...and then remove with spinner, or what?

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da Shiv

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2004, 08:59:53 AM »
I agree with Da Mutant Yoot about Hook-It.  This is a good place to mention something else I've noticed about Hook-It.  In my experience, if you treat the ball with Hook-It immediately before competition, it gives the ball a noticeably stronger backend without making the ball hook too early.  I discovered this kind of by accident.  I usually clean my bowling balls and do whatever surface prep I want for that ball a day or two after bowling.  One time I got to the center very early before league and did a lot of practice--so much that I wanted to clean the ball I was using (and planned to use that night) before league started.  I did a thorough cleaning with Hook-It, just rotating the ball around on a table and using bar napkins soaked with Hook-It.  When league practice started, I immediately noticed an extremely strong backend.  I did this procedure before league for about a month--all the times after the first time it did not involve pre-league practice like it did the first time.  The results were the same each time.  I quit doing it because most of the time the extra strong backend was more than needed for this particular center.  This experiment resulted in my discovery of another possible scoring weapon.  Since Hook-It is ABC legal for use DURING league play, if you start off and feel you have a pretty good ball reaction, but need a little more zip on the backend, just go over your ball with a quickie treatment of Hook-It.

My usual cleaning regimen is to put the ball on the spinner and start it up and hold a paper towel with a generous amount of Hook-It on it on the ball, moving the paper towel up and down the ball.  When I notice the paper towel seems to be starting to get drier, a take it off the ball and hold a clean towel (washcloth actually) on the ball to remove any residue.  This last step is probably not even really necessary.  I flip the ball 180 degrees and do the other side.  Then I flip it 90 degrees and do the procedure again.  Then another 180 flip and clean again.  This way you get 4 "sides" of the ball.  Generally the last two repetitions don't show any new grime on the paper towel and are probably not even necessary, but I'm obsessive--what can I say.

I think Hook-It can clean just as effectively without a spinner, but it takes longer and is more work.

I have another theory about Hook-It that is not claimed by Neotac, but seems to me to be the case.  I think it soaks into the ball and displaces oil.  I would not have noticed this on my equipment, since I clean obsessively.  I noticed it because an older guy I bowl with finally consented to let me clean his ball partly because I was needling him about it's condition, but mostly because he was getting no reaction out of it anymore.  I went at it with Hook-It and bar napkins on the settee table.  The first several passes resulted in lots of black gunk coming off the ball.  After that, what was coming out of the ball was yellow gunk--looking a lot like oil.  It wasn't ball color--the ball had no yellow, green, or orange in it.  Yellow gunk was still coming out of the ball when it was time to start league and I had to stop so I could go and wash the Hook-It off my hands and start bowling.  This guy's ball had a noticeable pop on the backend that night and he bowled almost 100 over and won a couple pots.  He's been using Hook-It ever since.  Anyway, the main reason I told that last story is to advance my theory that Hook-It displaces lane oil in the ball.

Generous use of Hook-It like what I do makes it advisable to buy it by the quart--I use www.blockbusterbowling.com.  Good prices, good selection, fast shipping.

Shiv
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Brickguy221

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2004, 09:12:07 AM »
Re: Hook-It Thanks once again Shiv. You've given me a wealth of information that I did not have under this topic. I really appreciate it. As soon as I get off the computer here, I'm going to the garage and use my Hook-It on my 3 Buzzsaws and see what happens in league play this afternoon. Again, many thanks.

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da Shiv

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #28 on: March 30, 2004, 07:23:50 AM »
Hook-It does have a dissolving effect on finger inserts, but if you're just passing over them (especially on a spinner) it doesn't get at them much.  If you're slopping the Hook-It around and it gets in your finger holes and all over your inserts, it would be a good idea to stop and rinse the fingers out with water right away.  Hook-It won't dissolve them instantly.

As far as using Renew-It first, that's okay, but bear in mind that Renew-It has a polishing effect.  If you don't want that, just go right to the Hook-It.

Shiv
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Brickguy221

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #29 on: March 30, 2004, 11:26:11 AM »
I tried the Hook-It. Works great. Shiv is right about getting the Hook-It on the finger inserts. No problem if you do what he says to do. I used two methods on my balls. I did it like Shiv said to do and on the second method, I stayed away from the holes on spinner, then applied around the holes with spinner off, then started spinner and cleaned off with a cloth.

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JohnP

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Re: You know... I was just reading about BLACK MAGIC...
« Reply #30 on: March 30, 2004, 11:40:38 AM »
Brickguy221 -- Good idea.  You could also cover the finger holes with masking tape.  --  JohnP