I agree.  I can see the diffrence.  Usually it is not with the amount of hook but where the hook starts on the lane earlier or later.

Pretty much the same here as K-Dawg. And after I saw 2 Traumas on the lane, one pin under and the other pin above the fingers, I am very convinced that different pin positions and even CG placement do considerable things to the ball's reaction - both Traumas reacted totally different, pin above fingers was a snap monster, while the pin under specimen was a strong arcing piece.

Remember, with pin placement you decide the reaction shape on the lane, determined by the cores instable starting position. With the relative placement of the core to the PAP (and some other factors, too), you can pretty well tune when and how much a ball will hook - and finding a proper match for your style, the lane condition and the ball's characteristics (plus its surface prep) is a tricky task.

Even though I must admit that I have to smile (internally) when I see bowlers who cannot hit any mark on the lane twice show their high end balls with pride - and the pieces have label leverage drillings on them, even flare backwards, but are the best ball under the sun, with an optimal setup JUST for the user... I gave up mentioning my, eh, doubts. Never disturb happy souls
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Just an example...I usually drill my dads equiptment pin 2-2 1/2" from pap...nice even arc...Earlier this year I drilled him a ball with the pin 5" from pap...he is a 205 all day average.....for 4 or 5 weeks he averaged around 175...totally had no clue how to play it because the hook style was so different. That was the furthest pin to pap ball he ever had. He does like it now after about 15 games of getting to use it.

For me yes but after a million bowling balls and trying sometimes crazy drills, I have gotten used to seeing what works for me what does not. Personally hate a higher mb to be placed near or beyond the VAL, it is just pure roll and almost no hook for me.

Like J Mac on his Toxic drilling thread i discovered that way high pin layout only from blem ball, it was interesting that it works so well big length and massive backend. Then again I have about no axis tilt and 60-80 degrees of rotation, so drills to delay hook are what i prefer to watch going down lane.

At first, I used to wonder the same thing.  I really couldn't see the difference, but it got me curious enough to pay attention.

  The first really difference I noticed wasn't in the balls reaction, but in the spares I was leaving.  I noticed that low pins left me more four pins and high pins left me more ten pins. This led me to find out why.

  I started to study ball reactions, breakpoint shapes, entry angles and other factors.  Began to know more and more about exactly what I was looking for and how to see it.  this is when I got to the point that I could actually tell what i was seeing and process the information correctly.

  Now, knowing what I am looking for, I can actually see the difference between high and low pin positions.  For me, high pin positions are longer and more "sudden" in their reaction, while low pin positions are earlier and more gradual.


  Knowing how long it took me to figure this all out, yes, I do wonder why I hear things like this all the time, especially from people here locally who I know personally haven't spent the time or effort to figure things like this out.  As far as posters here on the board, the ones with real knowledge can usually be ferreted out from those without it.  Wisdom can be hidden, but not ignorance.
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"The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits."
Albert Einstein

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