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Author Topic: Can you really notice a difference  (Read 8307 times)

302efi

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Can you really notice a difference
« on: June 24, 2008, 11:57:30 PM »
I see all this talk on here about drillings and people noticing a big change from pin over ring to pin under ring or something similar. I see and hear this same thing all the time at the bowling centers as well.

To watch these guys bowl, theres no way they can even tell which board they hit, let alone what a little pin change will do....LOL !

Anyone else read these kinda post or here people talk about this and just wonder, WTF?
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KDawg77

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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #1 on: June 25, 2008, 08:00:13 AM »

Phoneman

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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #2 on: June 25, 2008, 08:11:59 AM »
I agree.  I can see the diffrence.  Usually it is not with the amount of hook but where the hook starts on the lane earlier or later.

Robadat

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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2008, 08:13:07 AM »
What Ken said.

I have met some people who know exactly what different pin placements will do, and how to use them to maximum effectiveness.

Then there are those...
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dizzyfugu

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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2008, 08:16:41 AM »
Pretty much the same here as K-Dawg. And after I saw 2 Traumas on the lane, one pin under and the other pin above the fingers, I am very convinced that different pin positions and even CG placement do considerable things to the ball's reaction - both Traumas reacted totally different, pin above fingers was a snap monster, while the pin under specimen was a strong arcing piece.

Remember, with pin placement you decide the reaction shape on the lane, determined by the cores instable starting position. With the relative placement of the core to the PAP (and some other factors, too), you can pretty well tune when and how much a ball will hook - and finding a proper match for your style, the lane condition and the ball's characteristics (plus its surface prep) is a tricky task.

Even though I must admit that I have to smile (internally) when I see bowlers who cannot hit any mark on the lane twice show their high end balls with pride - and the pieces have label leverage drillings on them, even flare backwards, but are the best ball under the sun, with an optimal setup JUST for the user... I gave up mentioning my, eh, doubts. Never disturb happy souls
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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2008, 08:23:35 AM »
Yes to both ideas discussed so far. Some bowlers haven't a clue as to ball reaction basics, while others do. Much depends on the bowler's PAP in my opinion because those with lower tracks will struggle with pin above drillings unless they bowl on pretty dry conditions or have slower speed.

Other than what the bowler puts on the ball (revs, speed, etc.), surface changes will almost always be more meaningful to ball reaction than any other single thing. This sometimes gets overlooked on forums where everyone wants to know everything about everything...




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pro shop guy

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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2008, 08:57:17 AM »
Just an example...I usually drill my dads equiptment pin 2-2 1/2" from pap...nice even arc...Earlier this year I drilled him a ball with the pin 5" from pap...he is a 205 all day average.....for 4 or 5 weeks he averaged around 175...totally had no clue how to play it because the hook style was so different. That was the furthest pin to pap ball he ever had. He does like it now after about 15 games of getting to use it.

mainzer

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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2008, 10:55:17 AM »
I can tell the difference quite easily.
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mrbowlingnut

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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2008, 12:20:48 PM »
For me yes but after a million bowling balls and trying sometimes crazy drills, I have gotten used to seeing what works for me what does not. Personally hate a higher mb to be placed near or beyond the VAL, it is just pure roll and almost no hook for me.

Like J Mac on his Toxic drilling thread i discovered that way high pin layout only from blem ball, it was interesting that it works so well big length and massive backend. Then again I have about no axis tilt and 60-80 degrees of rotation, so drills to delay hook are what i prefer to watch going down lane.


bowlallthetime

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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2008, 12:22:32 PM »
I averaged 221 this year, and I'll admit, I don't know much about pin placements.  I go to my driller, and explain to him the reaction I am looking for, and he drills it.

Its funny how some of the posters in this thread talk about others who can't hit the same mark twice.  For example, Dizzy said the following:

"Even though I must admit that I have to smile (internally) when I see bowlers who cannot hit any mark on the lane twice show their high end balls with pride"

Dizzy's stats from his profile:
"Average(s) and personal records:
Official 2006/07 DBU average: 177,2"

With a high average of 177, you don't really have a right  to talk about others not being able to hit their mark 2x in a row.  You probably can't either, and thats why you're at 177.

I have no problem hitting my mark 2x in a row....3x is a little tough.



Juggernaut

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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2008, 12:30:51 PM »
At first, I used to wonder the same thing.  I really couldn't see the difference, but it got me curious enough to pay attention.

  The first really difference I noticed wasn't in the balls reaction, but in the spares I was leaving.  I noticed that low pins left me more four pins and high pins left me more ten pins. This led me to find out why.

  I started to study ball reactions, breakpoint shapes, entry angles and other factors.  Began to know more and more about exactly what I was looking for and how to see it.  this is when I got to the point that I could actually tell what i was seeing and process the information correctly.

  Now, knowing what I am looking for, I can actually see the difference between high and low pin positions.  For me, high pin positions are longer and more "sudden" in their reaction, while low pin positions are earlier and more gradual.


  Knowing how long it took me to figure this all out, yes, I do wonder why I hear things like this all the time, especially from people here locally who I know personally haven't spent the time or effort to figure things like this out.  As far as posters here on the board, the ones with real knowledge can usually be ferreted out from those without it.  Wisdom can be hidden, but not ignorance.
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302efi

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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2008, 12:31:55 PM »
quote:
With a high average of 177, you don't really have a right to talk about others not being able to hit their mark 2x in a row. You probably can't either, and thats why you're at 177.


This is my point. With a 177 avg, can you or do you really need to see what a pin over vs pin under drill does ??
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mrbowlingnut

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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2008, 12:34:20 PM »
Average has nothing to do with how accurate you are my friend, it does increase score when you learn to roll the ball better and better.

I can split boards at the arrows and hit within 1 board downlane, I average right at 202 why??? Because my left knee is shot and i have no leverage to speak of, Literally I have no time at the line. So alot of times my ball does not read the lane correctly as Bill Hall would tell me known as false revs.

I have been about as accurate since I was in my 2nd year of bowling and 170 ish, back then I just threw the ball like Sh1t but was pretty dang accurate. 10 pins for me as my crux, the knee stress just seems increase and I find myself pulling up from pain about 80 percent of the time.

bowlallthetime

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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2008, 12:34:48 PM »
With a low average, pin location should be one of the last things you are thinking about.  It is more important to first learn how to hit a mark consistently.  On a THS, you can make pretty much any ball work if you can be consistent with your shot making.

302efi

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Re: Can you really notice a difference
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2008, 12:35:51 PM »
Barry but avg is the knows way we measure ability skill, no ?
--------------------
quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.

Sport Bowling is a F**king joke